Question from a prospective mustang buyer

TheVin · Jan 12, 2007

Hi All:

I'm new around here. My regrets if this post is not in the correct forum.

I'm seriously thinking about buying a new 07 mustang. The STI and Z are in my range, but I've had a life-long yearning for the old style mustangs, and the new one has nearly all the curb appeal as the old. And lets face it- The STI looks like a honda with a bad plastic surgery job, and the Z has, well, 2 seats.

However, After test driving a mustang, I'm not very much in love with the suspension/road feel nor the shifter. I feel like I'm playing little-league softball with the looong loose throw of the shifter, and the Suspension (while certainly 'comfortable') has all the road feel of reading braille with boxing gloves (not to mention the effect on handling). Love the sound and the brutal power, though. Seriously love it.

So, with my discount (employer perq gives me ford employee pricing), I figure I can put in a short throw shifter and swap out the suspension and still make the payments.

I'm thinking about Roush parts- mainly because my dealer is a Roush 'stage' car dealer, and I live fairly close to the Roush factory.

So, my question is: Has anyone had any experience with the complete Roush suspension kit(http://store.roushperformance.com/detail.aspx?ID=471)? While I want a stiffer and more nimble ride, I don't want to be pounded to bits- will the upgrade leave me with an every-day driving car? Are Roush parts quality? Does a complete suspension upgrade drastically improve cornering, road feel and handling?

I'd like to have a short-throw put in it too. Then maybe come back for the brakes and upgrade the aspiration/exhaust down the road... Again I'd be thinking about Roush parts.

I used to love wrenching on cars and motorcycles, yeeeaaarrrss ago, and I don't have the time or skills anymore to do the work myself, so whats the best way to go about getting the parts installed- any recommendations as for what to look for in a shop, or if I should have my dealer do it?

I don't have the cash to buy a 'stage' car from roush- and I don't want all that silly plastic anyway.

Also- is the shaker 1000 worth it?

Im seriously considering the convertible, but I have not been able to find reliable numbers on how much weight that adds to the car.

Anyway, thanks for any help you all can provide.

Vin

Osiris · Jan 12, 2007

I can't offer much to help you, but I'll say this....

Yes, the handling will indeed improve with some modification. I don't expect it to improve to the levels an STi or Z would given those same additions, but the stigma of Mustangs not being able to handle is quite untrue given the proper adds.

Roush parts are definitely top quality, but also pricey. One thing the Mustang has over both of your other choices is a massively larger aftermarket, which includes cheaper prices.

Expect the drop top to add about 200 pounds to the weight, I would assume.

I have the Shaker 1000 and I like it. I don't know how it is in a convertible, but I see this as a system good enough to not require any upgrading at all.

Hope this helps!

mustangsquared · Jan 12, 2007

Get the Stang... replace the shifter with a short throw (~$200 and there is a thread for the DIY on here...takes about an hour with hand tools).... add lowering springs, replace the bushing in the suspension with energy suspension bushings, replace the lower control arms with a good set and you should be happy. On a side note, lower profile tires will remove some of the side to side motion in corners....and give you a little bumpier ride and combined with the lowering springs which will help remove some body roll will give you more of the race car feel (my 91 was dropped and lower profile tires added... corners great... but you will feel almost evey bump in the road)

tr7driver · Jan 12, 2007

GT or V6

You didn't indicate if you drove the GT or V6. They drive and handle differently, but are both excellent cars. Be sure to drive the GT before you decide. I bought a slightly used GT Convertible last fall and never regretted it for a second. I'm not a street racer but I have all the power i need.

TheVin · Jan 12, 2007

tr7driver said:
You didn't indicate if you drove the GT or V6. They drive and handle differently, but are both excellent cars. Be sure to drive the GT before you decide. I bought a slightly used GT Convertible last fall and never regretted it for a second. I'm not a street racer but I have all the power i need.

Thanks for the info! I test drove a GT convertible. The wind noise/buffeting of the convertible was quite acceptible- in line with some Euro 'vertibles that I was also looking at. And the Drop Top lets you hear more of that 'Obnoxious American' V8 rumble.

Vin

TheVin · Jan 12, 2007

mustangsquared said:
Get the Stang... replace the shifter with a short throw (~$200 and there is a thread for the DIY on here...takes about an hour with hand tools).... add lowering springs, replace the bushing in the suspension with energy suspension bushings, replace the lower control arms with a good set and you should be happy. On a side note, lower profile tires will remove some of the side to side motion in corners....and give you a little bumpier ride and combined with the lowering springs which will help remove some body roll will give you more of the race car feel (my 91 was dropped and lower profile tires added... corners great... but you will feel almost evey bump in the road)

Thanks for taking the time to reply! Very helpful. Side-to-side roll is my major complaint... Thats fine for a to-work-and-back sedan, but sports cars should not 'stumble' like that. though the brakes would probably perform better without modification if the dive issue was corrected.

Anyway, Thanks!

TheVin · Jan 12, 2007

Osiris said:
I can't offer much to help you, but I'll say this....

Yes, the handling will indeed improve with some modification. I don't expect it to improve to the levels an STi or Z would given those same additions, but the stigma of Mustangs not being able to handle is quite untrue given the proper adds.

Roush parts are definitely top quality, but also pricey. One thing the Mustang has over both of your other choices is a massively larger aftermarket, which includes cheaper prices.

Expect the drop top to add about 200 pounds to the weight, I would assume.

I have the Shaker 1000 and I like it. I don't know how it is in a convertible, but I see this as a system good enough to not require any upgrading at all.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the information!

No, I never expect a lightly modded mustang 'vertible to get close in cornering to a lightly modded Z or STI... However, if I could get something closer to the shift-feel of the Stock Z, and just correct some of the things about the suspension that I see as 'flaws', all for around the same price of an STI or Z, then I'd be a very happy buyer.

The rear-wheel-drive+live Axle that the Stang has, In my uneducated opinion (let me stress that, you all know far more than I), will have some fundamental liabilities in handling that probably would keep it away from what you can do with a Modded Z or STI... But thats fine- I'm not going to be racing people on mountain roads... Just having fun on said roads all by myself. And I'll have much more fun if my car isn't wanting to play 'pig in the mud' when presented with a corner.

Plus, I'd probably live longer

Vin

mustangsquared · Jan 12, 2007

Also to reduce the side to side action... add adjustable struts/shocks... tighten them up when you want to play... loosen them when your taking your girl out and dont want her hair to bounce around...

TheVin · Jan 12, 2007

mustangsquared said:
Also to reduce the side to side action... add adjustable struts/shocks... tighten them up when you want to play... loosen them when your taking your girl out and dont want her hair to bounce around...

What brand would you recommend? And how difficult is it to adjust them? Remember- I'm a complete n00b on this stuff.

Vin

mustangsquared · Jan 12, 2007

I dont remember brand name but from the picts (I dont have them...) it is just a turn knob... or a set screw you adjust... someone that has them will speak up...

welchy · Jan 12, 2007

Tokico D-specs. They run about $800 and you simple turn a knob on the top.

TheVin · Jan 12, 2007

welchy said:
Tokico D-specs. They run about $800 and you simple turn a knob on the top.

Okay- thanks! My only question I have with that- if I purchase and install all the other Roush parts except for the Parts the D-Spec has, would you expect any problems? IE- I would imagine the Roush parts are all matched to perform optimally together. Would the D-Specs you indicate reasonably have an impact on that? Sorry if these are dumb questions....

How much of a suspension upgrade could I do in my lawn with lifts? I used to do a LOT of work on 80's model *** Motorcycles, but I've never worked much on cars outside of alternator and belt swaps and bonehead stuff like that.

In general, I'd like to say how impressed I am by the helpfulness and responsiveness of this forums. You all got a good thing here. I've seen forums that are virtually impossible to communicate with people on, but this community seems really 'with it'

:SNSign:

Vin

TheVin · Jan 12, 2007

welchy said:
Tokico D-specs. They run about $800 and you simple turn a knob on the top.

Welchy:

I checked out those shocks. Unfortunately they are only compatible with Stangs up to 2004, not the 2005 model- or at least thats what their specs say. Ay other recommended brands?

Thanks!

Vin

gaberubin · Jan 12, 2007

my 06 roush handles like it's on rails...absolutely love it.

ride quality on 18x9's wasn't much worse than stock, but definitely bumpier with the 20's i have on. since your dealer is an authorized roush dealer you should go back and test drive a stage 2 for the sake of comparison. odds are you'll leave the test drive wanting the roush itself, and at the very least the suspension

this is in comparison to my 01 GT on which i had eibach sportline springs, bilstein shocks/struts and MM caster/camber plates. loved the stance but the ride was ROUGH.

TheVin · Jan 12, 2007

gaberubin said:
my 06 roush handles like it's on rails...absolutely love it.

ride quality on 18x9's wasn't much worse than stock, but definitely bumpier with the 20's i have on. since your dealer is an authorized roush dealer you should go back and test drive a stage 2 for the sake of comparison. odds are you'll leave the test drive wanting the roush itself, and at the very least the suspension

this is in comparison to my 01 GT on which i had eibach sportline springs, bilstein shocks/struts and MM caster/camber plates. loved the stance but the ride was ROUGH.

Thats exactly what I was hoping to find out! I'm probably going to order w/factory 18s, and don't see the need to go larger for quite some time.

The 'Stang with the suspension is looking more and more like the way to go. I saw a TopGear on youtube where they brutalized it- but those guys have a pathalogical hatred of all american cars

One of the other things I like is that I can move on through the car (brakes, exhaust, intake, tune and finally possibly the engine) and end up with everything I want out of a car.

BTW, you have a _NICE_ ride, looked at your pics. Is that a stage 2 or a stage 3?

Vin

thump_rrr · Jan 12, 2007

HI

I'm in the heavily modded category myself and there is a lot you can do to improve the feel of the car for very little money.

This is how I would approach it.

For a performance improvement and an improvement in the electronic throttle control, torque management, and drivability I would go with one of 3 intakes.
The C&L, Steeda, or JLT. There are many others out there and there is plenty of reading out there so I won't bore you with it. You will need a tuner such as an SCT X-Cal II or a Diablosport Predator and a tune from someone such as Doug from Bamachips or Brent from Brenspeed. Again I've used both tuners (Hardware) but neither of their tunes (Software) much reading can be done on this subject.

As for the shifter the best bang for the buck to improve the throw is the Saleen shifter block for around $45.00. It will reduce the throws by around 33%.
Part Number: 10-2705-B11516*

For more precise shiffts add the Steeda shifter bushings $15.00
Part Number: 555-7095

You can go with the Steeda Tri-Ax like I did but it's a lot more money and a bit more clunky and very stiff for the first month or two.

As far as handling goes you need 3 things Springs Swaybars and Shocks.

Going the independant route you will get the best parts possible at the lowest prices.

I did the swaybars the second week I got the car. They were actually at my home before the car was. The swaybars alone changed the whole character of the car.

The Tokico D-Spec shocks are the best since they are adjustable from caddy soft to kidney bashing stiff and can be found for around $500.00 (exception $1,500.00 for 2 santhuff struts)
Part Number: DSP-12

Springs are pretty much all the same for a 1" drop you have the Steeda Sport or Utralite Springs $240.00 - $260.00, or the Eibach Pro-Kit. There are others out there but these are the most popular.

As far as swaybars go the wise choice is the Eibach swaybarswhich are dimensionally identical to the Steedas at 1/2 the price.
Part Number:007697 $269.00

Some of my sources have told me that Eibach manufactures all the springs and swaybars for Steeda so most likely they are virtually identical.

Any swaybar kit you purchase should have heavy duty endlinks for the rear since the originals are as stiff as a wet noodle.

Here is some interesting reading with good pics of the FRPP swaybars. (the endlinks look very close to the Eibachs too)

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/news/category/project-cars/other-cool-cars-hanging-around-the-grm-office/2006-ford-mustang-gt/

Here is a list of my mods so you can get an idea of how far I went with mine.

Engine And Fuel System

Saleen Series VI Supercharger Kit
GI Joe 8 Rib Pulley Kit Including Reichard Racing 3.4" Pulley JDM Engineering Stage II Package (minus pulley, belt, lowered motor mounts)
SCT X-Cal II Programmer
JDM Cold Air Kit
90mm Mass Air Kit
39# injectors
Ford Racing Spark Plugs
C&L Racer Intake Tube
Turbohoses Silicone Connector Boots
WP-346 Meziere Electric Water Pump
GT500 Twin Pump Fuel System with Dual FPDM's and Harness

Drivetrain

555-7305 Steeda Tri-Ax® Shifter
257-186551 Steeda/Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel
DF611679 Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch
201-8.8 LPW Cap Support Diff Cover
FRPP 4.10 Gears
FRPP Differential Clutch Packs
Powerhouse Aluminum Driveshaft

Suspension and Chassis

555-8215 Steeda Sport Springs
555-1050 Steeda Front Sway Bar
555-4006 Steeda Front Control Arm Bushing Kit
555-8096 Steeda Billet Camber Adjusters
555-8106 Steeda Bumpsteer Kit
555-8113 Steeda Billet Swaybar Mount
555-1051 Steeda Swaybar Competition Endlinks
555-1052 Steeda Rear Sway Bar C/W HD Swaybar Chassis Link Kit and optional Billet Swaybar Caps
555-5725 Steeda Billet Strut Tower Brace
555-5530 Steeda G-Trac Brace
555-4105 Steeda Adjustable Upper 3-Link Kit
555-4405 Steeda Billet Lower Control Arms
555-2551 Steeda Street Panhard Bar
555-2555 Steeda HD Race Panhard Bar Brace
555-5750 Steeda Rear Shock Tower Brace
KM010 BMR K-Member with integral motor mounts
CAB005 BMR Control Arm Relocation Brackets.
Tokico DSP-12 Shocks

Exhaust

6675SJT JBA Long Tube Headers Titanium Ceramic Coated
6675SHC JBA Catted H-Pipe
15881 Magnaflow Cat Back Mufflers

Wheels And Tires

013-0001-45 Steeda Ultra-Lite Chrome Wheels
275/40 18" Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 Tires

Exterior

555-0500 Steeda Competition Front Fascia
555-0025 Steeda Front Fascia Fog Lamp Kit
307-0011 Steeda Functional Race Hood
307-0010 Steeda Street Wing
477-0000 Steeda 2005 Black Sidewinder Stripes
10-1202 Saleen HID Headlight System

Interior

Speed Of Sound 2-Gauge Pillar Pod
Autometer Nexus Controller Module
Autometer Nexus Boost/Vac Gauge
Autometer Nexus Fuel Pressure Gauge
555-1156 Steeda Billet Dead Pedal
555-1157 Steeda Billet Pedal Covers

Future Upgrades
Wilwood 14" Front Brakes with 6 Piston Calipers
Wilwood 13" Custom Rear Brake Setup

Good luck and hopefully you'll come aboard.

TheVin · Jan 12, 2007

Thump: Thanks for the excellent advice, I'll be printing it out. Also- one very MEAN mustang you got there... does it run on Hi-Octane Kittens?

thump_rrr said:
HI

I'm in the heavily modded category myself and there is a lot you can do to improve the feel of the car for very little money.

This is how I would approach it.

For a performance improvement and an improvement in the electronic throttle control, torque management, and drivability I would go with one of 3 intakes.
The C&L, Steeda, or JLT. There are many others out there and there is plenty of reading out there so I won't bore you with it. You will need a tuner such as an SCT X-Cal II or a Diablosport Predator and a tune from someone such as Doug from Bamachips or Brent from Brenspeed. Again I've used both tuners (Hardware) but neither of their tunes (Software) much reading can be done on this subject.

As for the shifter the best bang for the buck to improve the throw is the Saleen shifter block for around $45.00. It will reduce the throws by around 33%.
Part Number: 10-2705-B11516*

For more precise shiffts add the Steeda shifter bushings $15.00
Part Number: 555-7095

You can go with the Steeda Tri-Ax like I did but it's a lot more money and a bit more clunky and very stiff for the first month or two.

As far as handling goes you need 3 things Springs Swaybars and Shocks.

Going the independant route you will get the best parts possible at the lowest prices.

I did the swaybars the second week I got the car. They were actually at my home before the car was. The swaybars alone changed the whole character of the car.

The Tokico D-Spec shocks are the best since they are adjustable from caddy soft to kidney bashing stiff and can be found for around $500.00 (exception $1,500.00 for 2 santhuff struts)
Part NumberSP-12

Springs are pretty much all the same for a 1" drop you have the Steeda Sport or Utralite Springs $240.00 - $260.00, or the Eibach Pro-Kit. There are others out there but these are the most popular.

As far as swaybars go the wise choice is the Eibach swaybarswhich are dimensionally identical to the Steedas at 1/2 the price.
Part Number:007697 $269.00

Some of my sources have told me that Eibach manufactures all the springs and swaybars for Steeda so most likely they are virtually identical.

Any swaybar kit you purchase should have heavy duty endlinks for the rear since the originals are as stiff as a wet noodle.

Here is some interesting reading with good pics of the FRPP swaybars. (the endlinks look very close to the Eibachs too)

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/news/category/project-cars/other-cool-cars-hanging-around-the-grm-office/2006-ford-mustang-gt/

Here is a list of my mods so you can get an idea of how far I went with mine.

Engine And Fuel System

Saleen Series VI Supercharger Kit
GI Joe 8 Rib Pulley Kit Including Reichard Racing 3.4" Pulley JDM Engineering Stage II Package (minus pulley, belt, lowered motor mounts)
SCT X-Cal II Programmer
JDM Cold Air Kit
90mm Mass Air Kit
39# injectors
Ford Racing Spark Plugs
C&L Racer Intake Tube
Turbohoses Silicone Connector Boots
WP-346 Meziere Electric Water Pump
GT500 Twin Pump Fuel System with Dual FPDM's and Harness

Drivetrain

555-7305 Steeda Tri-Ax® Shifter
257-186551 Steeda/Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel
DF611679 Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch
201-8.8 LPW Cap Support Diff Cover
FRPP 4.10 Gears
FRPP Differential Clutch Packs
Powerhouse Aluminum Driveshaft

Suspension and Chassis

555-8215 Steeda Sport Springs
555-1050 Steeda Front Sway Bar
555-4006 Steeda Front Control Arm Bushing Kit
555-8096 Steeda Billet Camber Adjusters
555-8106 Steeda Bumpsteer Kit
555-8113 Steeda Billet Swaybar Mount
555-1051 Steeda Swaybar Competition Endlinks
555-1052 Steeda Rear Sway Bar C/W HD Swaybar Chassis Link Kit and optional Billet Swaybar Caps
555-5725 Steeda Billet Strut Tower Brace
555-5530 Steeda G-Trac Brace
555-4105 Steeda Adjustable Upper 3-Link Kit
555-4405 Steeda Billet Lower Control Arms
555-2551 Steeda Street Panhard Bar
555-2555 Steeda HD Race Panhard Bar Brace
555-5750 Steeda Rear Shock Tower Brace
KM010 BMR K-Member with integral motor mounts
CAB005 BMR Control Arm Relocation Brackets.
Tokico DSP-12 Shocks

Exhaust

6675SJT JBA Long Tube Headers Titanium Ceramic Coated
6675SHC JBA Catted H-Pipe
15881 Magnaflow Cat Back Mufflers

Wheels And Tires

013-0001-45 Steeda Ultra-Lite Chrome Wheels
275/40 18" Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 Tires

Exterior

555-0500 Steeda Competition Front Fascia
555-0025 Steeda Front Fascia Fog Lamp Kit
307-0011 Steeda Functional Race Hood
307-0010 Steeda Street Wing
477-0000 Steeda 2005 Black Sidewinder Stripes
10-1202 Saleen HID Headlight System

Interior

Speed Of Sound 2-Gauge Pillar Pod
Autometer Nexus Controller Module
Autometer Nexus Boost/Vac Gauge
Autometer Nexus Fuel Pressure Gauge
555-1156 Steeda Billet Dead Pedal
555-1157 Steeda Billet Pedal Covers

Future Upgrades
Wilwood 14" Front Brakes with 6 Piston Calipers
Wilwood 13" Custom Rear Brake Setup

Good luck and hopefully you'll come aboard.

thump_rrr · Jan 12, 2007

Thanks,

This is what she ran on 93 Octane with the street tune.
I'm going to try and make it to JDM in NJ in march before my busy season starts.
Hopefully I can get it tuned for the track and get another 1/10th or so out of it.
I don't have a rollbar in it so it's technically already too fast.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2082870

thump_rrr · Jan 12, 2007

Doublepost

Umbra_Lupis · Jan 12, 2007

TheVin said:
Welchy:

I checked out those shocks. Unfortunately they are only compatible with Stangs up to 2004, not the 2005 model- or at least thats what their specs say. Ay other recommended brands?

Thanks!

Vin

http://www.brenspeed.com/mustang_2005/suspension.html

tokico D-spec shocks and struts $540

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