rack and pinion question?

Alaska5.0 · Apr 26, 2005

Just wondering how you know when your rack and pinion needs changed out. Sloppy steering? or is there more to it? Thanks in advance

HISSIN50 · Apr 26, 2005

rack itself will leak or can have slop in it. inner and outer tie rods can allow slop as well. outers are fine to swap, but if it needs inners, i would rather get a new/reman'd rack - most of the time it is more cost effective. i like to swap new outer tie rods on whenever that kind of work is done - saves another repair down the line (and subsequent alignment costs).

good luck.

Kerpal · Apr 26, 2005

Where's the best place to get a new rack and pinion? Seems like most people buy them from regular parts stores, but is there any difference in quality depending on where you go?

HISSIN50 · Apr 26, 2005

quality amongst reman'd parts store stuff - I am not sure about that. i got a parts store reman'd unit but dont know how it compares to other racks from other stores (i might call and get quotes on pricing - ask what brand the rack is. i bet many places get racks from the same source).

other than that, the real high level stuff is obviously nice, but out of my price range.

good luck.

haze187 · Apr 26, 2005

My power rack and pinion has been dry of fluid for some years now, not a single issue. I was going to get the flashy flamin river manual one, but Ive grown to like the drained ford power rack.. haha

PonyBoy90 · Apr 27, 2005

I just recently replaced my power rack and pinion.

Mine developed a slow leak around the driverside rubber boot area. I'd have to top up all the time or risk burning out the pump. A Mustang pro did this for me. Turns out when I looked at the old part it was leaking just about everywhere and collecting at one point under the car.

I replaced mine with a remanned Ford Racing rack. The rack was $250 with core exchange. I also replaced my pressure hose and return hose on my own call. They say that you should replace the hoses as they are all gummed up with old steering fluid and rubber so that you don't contaminate the lines in the new rack. The return line was $40 and the pressure hose $75. The mechs were actually quite happy I replaced the 2 hoses as the old stock ones were either cracking at the attachment points, or the clamps were all rusted out and made working with them real difficult. I didn't want a new rack with leaking hoses they may become a problem later.

Flaming River is great I hear for manual rack but your looking at $600 just for the rack!!!! Then, you may need to also get a yoke coupling as the stock steering shaft at the knuckle is not compatible with the Flaming River Rack.

Then you gotta get the car aligned which is another $50.

HISSIN50 · Apr 27, 2005

right - the dust seals should not contain fluid. if one has a leak out of the dust boot, the end seals are gone.

i would add that i also replaced all the lines (everything in the PS system) and if one chooses to use lesser parts (from the parts store), things like the high pressure line and return lines can be had for much cheaper (just letting you know - the prices Ponyboy paid for his nice parts would have been out of my league).

i thorough flush is a minimum if not renewing all components - that was a great point PB.

good luck

haze187 · Apr 27, 2005

when my PS started to leak and wine, i just riped all the junk out, why spend 300+ dollars to loose horsepower? seems pretty stupid to me.....

seijirou · Apr 27, 2005

haze187 said:
when my PS started to leak and wine, i just riped all the junk out, why spend 300+ dollars to loose horsepower? seems pretty stupid to me.....

Well for those of us who do the twisties, it's nice to have

HISSIN50 · Apr 27, 2005

haze187 said:
when my PS started to leak and wine, i just riped all the junk out, why spend 300+ dollars to loose horsepower? seems pretty stupid to me.....

since we are talking mostly about rack and pinions, how did you rip it out and still steer?

haze187 · Apr 27, 2005

HISSIN50 said:
since we are talking mostly about rack and pinions, how did you rip it out and still steer?

its quite simple, a guy just said he spent 275 on a new rack because his stock one was leaking, well I say just take out the pump and all the lines and save some cash and HP, not to mention a huge mess and headache....

2000xp8 · Apr 27, 2005

Kerpal said:
Where's the best place to get a new rack and pinion? Seems like most people buy them from regular parts stores, but is there any difference in quality depending on where you go?

I used an agr 15:1 Road race rack, it's amazing. Steering is quick and effortless. Makes a cadillac seem hard to drive. Took about 2 weeks to adjust to it, now i can never go back.
Cost me like $250 from summit.

HISSIN50 · Apr 28, 2005

haze187 said:
its quite simple, a guy just said he spent 275 on a new rack because his stock one was leaking, well I say just take out the pump and all the lines and save some cash and HP, not to mention a huge mess and headache....

ah, i gotcha. i really thought you removed the rack - you eliminated the mess by removing the fluid. gotcha.

FWIW, using parts store components, one can renew every PS component (sans outer tie rods and nothing north of the steering shaft) for under 200 bucks. im sure it is not as nice as the Ford stuff, but not all of us can afford that.

PonyBoy90 · Apr 28, 2005

Actually, in my opinion, the Ford stuff was the cheaper way to go. I mean, just the flaming river manual rack equalled the total cost of all my parts and the installation.

I was inches away of ordering the flaming river manual rack. What stopped me short was I didn't want the difficulties that come with manually steering a large car in tight spots and on top of that, paying a premium to do so!

Second, I was concerned about the "engineering" of the steering column on the car. I felt that the steering column was more geared towards "assisted" turning than manual turning. Hence, I didn't want to destroy/ruin the bearings in a steering column that, in my opinion, was designed for a power steering system and not a manual system. I had asked this forum and a few others on confirmation of my suspicions/concerns and no one could give me a straight answer on this. Hence, I stuck with the power steering that my car came equiped with.

If I could have, would I have bought aftermarket hoses and a rack instead of the Ford brand? Probably not. Even though I didn't install this stuff myself I felt it important to make the job of doing so as pain free as possible for those that did. When it comes to my car, I equal it to taking your child in to see the doctor. I didn't care to hear from my Mustang Mechanic (By the way, he's Joe DaSilva of DaSilva Racing Motorsport) that things on the aftermarket rack didn't line-up properly with the stock parts, or the rack pin didn't align correctly with the joint under the knuckle of the steering shaft, or connection points where the hoses attached to the rack were difficult to get to, etc etc etc. I wanted it done nice and I don't want to deal with it ever again.

PS, I almost came close to replacing the pump to even though it didn't need it only for the simple fact that could go out next also. Oh, and that'll be a Ford part also.

Yeah, I know, it's extra coin, but it's worth not having to hassle over it in the long run.

HISSIN50 · Apr 28, 2005

PB, i can totally see your point and why you did what you did. in addition, i feel that anytime one is paying labor charges, it is wise to use a decent component (that money saved using reman'd stuff from the parts store goes real quick when paying labor to have the same part R/R'd because the part went south). wise move, IMHO.

If you made these comments based upon the dollar amount i quoted, i was actually posting in regard to what Haze was saying (simply to point out that there were cheaper alternatives).

2000xp8 · Apr 28, 2005

Manual racks are no fun in parking lots at very low speeds.

Alaska5.0 · Apr 29, 2005

Thanks for the replies, I have some pretty sloppy steering at the moment. I dont think I have any leaks though, since my powersteering pump is full, and I never have to top off. But of course this all just started. I think I will probally go with the remanufactured Ford Racing rack, is this rack different then the stock rack in a 90'GT?

HISSIN50 · Apr 29, 2005

sloppy steering can also be ancillaries - inner/outer tie rods and rag joints. just something to remember (i assume you will get new inners with the rack and will renew outters, but dont forget about the rag joints if the sloppyness persists).

cant answer the rack comparison for ya - i will let others decide. i can tell ya that on my 88 GT vert, there were 4 options. ford standard, Ford hi-po, TRW standard and TRW hi-po.
good luck

PonyBoy90 · Apr 29, 2005

I know there's different "turn" ratios on these things. Mines a 1990 LX by the way. I selected the lower turning ratio of 2 turns of the steering wheel as opposed to 3 on the other rack. Turns out the selection I made is similar if not bang on with what I had before.

You're mentioning you have "slop" in your steering wheel. Mine wasn't too bad when I sprung a leak. However, after I got the rack replaced I had to drive over to an alignment shop which was about 5 miles down the road. let me tell you, the slop in my steering wheel was brutal!!!!! Once aligned though it was fantastic!

Before you go and start blowing coin on a rack and pinion, stop by an alignment shop and get them to inspect everything first. Could be you're just out of alignment. When I brought my car in after the replacement, the alignment specialist (who's Joe DaSilva's buddy) told me something about Joe's mechanic being "2 inches off" on the alignment. I guess that meant he was 2 inches off the optimum alignment.

Get it looked at first. My own diagnosis was easy. Plain and simple, the rack was leaking like a siv.

2000xp8 · Apr 29, 2005

Remember to do everything all at once, so you only need one alignment.
Might as well buy new outers to go with the new rack.
I believe the stock ration is 20:1, that is why i bought a 15:1. Much much faster.

If you are going to lower car, do it now, and install offset steering rack bushings, trust me, you don't want to pull that rack off twice.

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