Realistic expectations from stock camshaft...

[xc600]

Alright, after getting beat up over considering going to a carb, I'm now considering staying injected. I've heard from quite a few sources that the stock pcm in the 94-95 SN's doesn't like to play well with aftermarket cams. This being said, driveability is a major concern of mine while I'm considering my options.

If I was to keep my stock 95 GT cam and add say a set of Y303's, 1.7 RR, and a Cobra or GT-40 intake what could I realistically expect for power out of this combo?
I'm looking in relation to possible 1/4 mile numbers, that's something I could compare things to that we've all experienced. I'm not looking at this point to also swap in a MAF, injectors, or throttle body, and I realize the setup might suffer slightly from it. I'm just looking to get the parts I already have in use to see what they'll do.
I already have a new clutch, 3.73 gears, Comp Eng rear lowers, off road X-pipe, and smog pump deleted. I'm considering putting an MSD 6al on that I have on the shelf, if for nothing else but the rev limiter, and I'm looking for a set of pulleys.

FRPP used to advertise a setup similar to this that supposedly put out 290 to 310hp at the flywheel, how does that relate to track times on these cars taking into consideration all the variables(wheel spin, weather, stupid driver).......??

Sorry for probably rehashing old topics, but isn't that how new topics get started

 

[5.0ltrriceeater]

Dont know about the combo, but even slight performance mods on a 94-95 gt will benefit greatly from that ignition install. I just got my car dynoed and at about 5grand it started bucking on the dyno from the spark being blown out. With nothing other than an ignition installed it completely cured that issue.

Put that msd on it!!!

 

[1slow95]

The stock cam really isn't that bad. Someone posted up numbers just above 300rwhp with a set of AFR's and the stock cam, IIRC. I don't know much about the Y303 heads, but I would guess between 240-260rwhp should be possible.

 

[rj95svt]

I think that with those parts you would get about 240-260rwhp pretty easily which would be a very good improvement over what you got now. The throttle body, maf, and injectors would not be a problem at those power levels. low 13's should be easily possible with decent traction with that set up.

 

[wytstang]

Spark blow out at that power range n/a should not be an issue at all. If it is I would suspect the plug gap was too wide and closing them up a bit would have cured that. And you could get high 12's depending on driver, tires, track condition, weather, and elevation. Mike (Oinkaodoink) dyno'ed 500 or 600rwhp with a 342 single turbo stroker using the stock cam with an AOD.

 

[final5-0]

Alan

Your concern for the pcm is noted

But Really ... You can only go so far with heads, intakes, headers and the like until
you need inj's, then a meter.

Just look at the Cobra's power output for a perfect example

Ford saw fit to equip it with 24's

You will most likely encounter some drivability issues with heads, intake, and
headers even though you keep the stock cam
The good part is ... they M I G H T not be all that bad

When you go to larger inj's and a meter caled to match them .....
thats where you really have a good chance of more serious drivability
gremlins rearing their ugly head :Word:

I know you don't wanna here this but ... if you are gonna go to the trouble to
build a NA combo with better heads, intake, etc ...........

Don't worry about the pcm
Even though it might be a very mild cam .......
Consider one never the less

Focus on making power with proven parts

Let the technology of tuning deal with drivability issues
or
You very well could be leaving power on the table
with your parts selection based upon pcm concerns

Grady

 

[earleys94gt]

I have seen some good numbers with the stock cam. I was in the same boat your in, stock or aftermarket cam. My car is currently getting some new heads, and I figured why not do a cam. I went with the Steeda 19, which isn't the most aggressive but is said to work good with our computers. The stock cam has .444 lift, the Steeda is .480 lift. Not a major difference, but a difference none the less. You also don't want to put on heads and not a cam while it's apart, and then regret it down the road when you decide to install a cam .

 

[xc600]

Aftermarket cam with stock pcm

Everyone,
I guess the real question comes down to whether or not I'd need to cam this combo. MAF, and injectors are out of the question as of now, budget wise. I have the rest of the parts and I might be able to come up with a slightly bigger throttle body.
If this combo was to run realistically in the 13's I'd be happy as hell. What I don't want to lose is daily driveability, even though I don't drive it daily.
I would consider putting a cam in as long as it was one that played well with the computer.
I do have a Lunati cam that was spec'd out for another motor I was putting together but I don't think the pcm would like it. How well does the FRPP "B" cam work and would it be an option??

 

[wytstang]

Ford letter cams are hit and miss with out cars it's either going to idle just fine and not surge. Or it will make you regret it from day one. Do you not plan on having the car dyno'ed? That tool will help eliminate any surging or driveabilty problems you may have. If not you may just want to stick with bolts ons and an intake, long tube headers. It won't yield as much power but it may keep you happy long enough to pull the funds together for more power.

 

[StinkinLincoln]

hey buddy, i got a XE270HR comp cam and heads, intake, maf, inj. the whole nine yards on my 331. no tune, fuel psi set to 40 so i dont lean out, runs fine. sure there is more power left on the table in a tune, thats why my tweecer is for.
the cam has a little idle hunting, i have my tb set as far closed as possible to it idles at 750ish. i open the tb and the idle is fine as frogs hair. even with mine closed all the way, after 5 min of running one time the pcm learns it enough that it wont die at idle, it may buck some but i have it set that way.

 

[final5-0]

If a 13 second et is all you want Alan .. you certainly don't need a cam

You really don't need a whole lot to achieve that goal

Grady

 

[xc600]

Reasonable objective

I just thought 13's would be a reasonable objective to look at power wise. My old 85 notch with basically a stock H.O. and a good tune and was only good for a low of 14.99 sec, but it won me a street stock class, $200, and my name in National Dragster.
Man, that was a fun day at the old "Dirty D"....long gone now.....

If you ask my wife, 13's aren't fast enough, but there's a point where you have to draw the line between driving it to work and taking it to the track. I want to do both, and I don't want to constantly be playing with it to do it.
Maybe staying injected will help me with that, I might be willing to give it a try.

From everything I've read and been told I should be good with the stock pcm, MAF, injectors, and throttle body......for now.......
I guess what I need to learn next is what HAS to be changed together. If the stock Cobra's came with bigger injectors from the factory, but the same size TB's, maybe that would be the next logical step. I guess I'd need injector swap schooling as a next upgrade option.

 

[WhiteDevil]

I think that with those parts you would get about 240-260rwhp pretty easily which would be a very good improvement over what you got now. The throttle body, maf, and injectors would not be a problem at those power levels. low 13's should be easily possible with decent traction with that set up.

I made 249rwhp with stock heads and cam. I had all the bolt ons and an edel performer. I would hope to see 260ish rwhp.

 

[final5-0]

Since you've given us the goal of a 13 sec 1/4 mile

I'd say go for a bit more power
but
Mostly cause you use the 1/4 mile to judge your success ...

Go for the most effective bang for the least buck spent
and
When talking 1/4 mile ... a low 60 foot is where its at :Word:

Also you gotta be very quick on the shifts
but
Power shifting is not absolutely necessary for your goal

First thing ... Lets talk motor mods to make power
Your focus is WOT as you do the 1/4 mile thing

I'd pass on the ignition, tb, maf, inj's, pcm tune, heads, 1.7rr's

You already got rid of the 4 cat mid pipe
You already got 373's
I'd do an intake manifold
I'd do some pulleys
I'd do a cai that draws in fresh cool air ... it will drop et on cool evenings
I'd do the short belt thing when at the strip

Thats enough power mods for a 13.99 et

Get you some light weight 15" Welds
Get you some 15" Nitto DR's

Practice ... Practice .. Practice ... that launch until .........
you drop those 60 foots to 1.8 or so

Remember ... you get a two for one thing
on the big end with the 60 foots

Also practice different shift rpm values and keep notes

Cool the motor between runs

That ought to do it my friend

Grady

 

[xc600]

Good grief.....

I just knew bringing track numbers into things was going to hurt my brain

What if I said I was going to take it road racing

 

[final5-0]

I just knew bringing track numbers into things was going to hurt my brain

What if I said I was going to take it road racing

Different goals can require different plans.

Example

You can reach a certain et but not make a lot of power
and
You can reach a certain power level but not et all that well

I started out giving info in this thread for more power

I had to change my tactics a bit when I knew what you wanted to do

I don't do roundy roundy

Grady

 

[xc600]

Experiences...

I hear you on the quarter mile times and their dependance on everything being just right.
I was just using the 1/4 mile numbers for my own reference as to how the car might feel "seat of the pants". This car will not be at the track on a regular basis, heck the nearest track is almost an hour from here now.
I just don't want to screw together a bunch of good parts only to be disappointed with the results or be frustrated with the way it runs after.
Right now I have a 95 GT that I like to drive and feel it needs a little help in the "get up and go" dept.

 

[JJ95GTID]

I basically have the combo you are contemplating. I have the Explorer intake, Y303 heads, Cobra 1.7:1 roller rockers, BBK equal lengths, catted x-pipe, 2.5" catback, 3.73s. I run this with the stock injectors, MAF, throttlebody, camshaft and stock ECM(EEC-IV).

My best times with this combo is in my sig.
Drivability with this combo is great!!!
Using online calculators with a est weight of 3500lbs with me in the car I get right around 250whp.
Running 13s with 1.9x second 60' times.


EDIT: I am currently setting up a Paxton SC. I blew my head gasket and am now upgrading the fuel system and replacing the gaskets.

 

[1slow95]

If you want "easy" 13's, build enough power to run 12's with the correct suspension/tires. I wanted easy low 12's/high 11's, and I got 12.20 on my second run. My car with good tires/suspension and lots of practice could probably run in the 10's.