Really Really need help with car not starting

zigmont · Jun 27, 2010

Checking the spark by hooking the plug wire to the plug and grounding the plug against the block will only prove that your spark will jump the gap on the plug. You should use the coil wire against the block to get a better feel for how much voltage is coming from the coil. The spark should jump at least a 1/4 inch gap, and be a thin blue/white spark. If is a fat yellow spark and wont jump much of a gap that imay not be enough to start the engine. Keep in mind, that compressed air acts like an insulator, and a spark that will jump the plug gap when the plug is outside the engine may not fare so well when it is under compression.
Are you sure the engine is getting enough fuel at startup? The sputtering at first then stady cranking with no response sounds like you need more fuel into the engine.

Max Power · Jun 27, 2010

I had symptoms similar to this and I had a sheared dizzy pin. Mat sure the rotor is spinning as well.

woodsnake · Jun 27, 2010

"It's a 1966 coupe with a 289.
New pertronix flamethrower coil and distributor
Edelbrock top end RPM intake, heads and roller cam
New holley carb."

What roller cam did you use? Did you install a new timing gear set with the cam?
If so, did you verify the 6-12 o'clock positioning of the cam gear and crank gear?

red66er · Jun 27, 2010

The cam was a match set as well as the timing chain for the edelbrock. In fact it was all edelbrock.
Yes when it came time to putting the timing gear on I checked and rechecked and rechecked again since I had read so much about people having problems in this area.

Here is what happened today. I hooked up the timing light to the number one wire. Started to turn the engine over and the timing light never goes off. When I pull the plug and do the same thing by looking at the plug it may spark once but never sparks again.

I have changed plugs and it did the same thing. I bought a new coil today and it did the same thing.

Would a low battery cause this to happen. I have been cranking for quite some time with out recharging the battery?

Or do I have some place where there is a short being created as I start to turn over the engine?

Guys this is killing me and really wearing me down.

red66er · Jun 27, 2010

Zigmont, I actually checked the floats today because after cranking for awhile it would always smell like gas. I kind of thought that the engine was flooding. I would pull a random plug to find unburned wet gas on the plug.

Why no spark? Gaps are set at .035 pretty much what is standard for that 289

mudbilly · Jun 27, 2010

put the old distributor back in,,,, you have to have good spark,,,,,,,

Az Pete · Jun 27, 2010

Yes, a low battery can cause the spark to be weak.

red66er · Jun 27, 2010

AZ Pete,
So it is possible that it may spark maybe once outside the engine and that when put back in the engine it won't spark?

I hope that is all it is cause otherwise I don't know what to do. I am charging the battery as we speak. Didn't get any lights in the inside of the car either so the battery must have been pretty low.

I guess I'll wait till that charges to start my TDC run again.

spade33 · Jun 27, 2010

Now bare with me as all my good guesses or advice has already been taken. Kinda a shot in the dark as I don't know for sure but you said you had a roller cam in a 289. Could the problem be a roller cam in a non roller block?

TeamEntity · Jun 27, 2010

red66er · Jun 27, 2010

This edelbrock kit is specifically made for the 289-302.

Still can't figure out the spark plug thing unless it's just a low battery causing the intermittant or no spark thing.

tcrote5516 · Jun 29, 2010

If the battery has enough juice to turn over the motor, it has enough for spark.

You did bypass the coil resistor....right

red66er · Jun 29, 2010

yup, made sure I did that.

Here's what I think is going on after some other research. The timing I believe is still off however I have narrowed that down to where number one needs to point at.

My edelbrock mechanical fuel pump puts out 7 psi. My Holley car says that it can take 5-7 psi. But after reading things in other forums it turns out that the holley really runs best at 4.5-5 psi.

What I'm getting at is that the high psi coming in is too much and it keeps flooding the plugs everytime I go to start it. After pulling three plugs they are all wet and when I do try and start the engine it smells of gas almost immediately like it is flooding right away.

I haven't checked to see if the needle it stuck open but I do have a fuel pressure regulator coming by Wednesday. We'll see if that helps.

mudbilly · Jun 29, 2010

try starting it with the throttle wide open........

red66er · Jun 29, 2010

Hey Mudbilly,

Ya know when I first started to try and start the engine, it's been so long now, I was opening up the throttle taking the choke off or at least partially off and I was at least getting backfire and the occasional "almost start" sound. I quit doing it because of the backfire.

Since that point it's been all down hill. Not even a backfire any more.
Lots of gas smell right away like she's flooding.
If it did start up with the choke wide open what would that mean? Flooding? If so how to fix?

Like I said I do have a regulator coming. Checked needle valves today and they looked and operated flawlessly. Decided to replace the crappy carb gasket that came with the carb with a Felpro. Big difference quality there I noticed.

woodsnake · Jun 29, 2010

Back to basics...
Fully charged battery? Fuel in carb? Spark at plug? Sounds like yes to all of the above.
So, it seems it isn't sparking at the right time. Or, the valves aren't properly adjusted. Or, you may have the wrong length push rods.
Backfiring thru the carb indicates timing to me. Rotate the engine by hand, until the timing pointer is at "0" On the balancer. Take off the cap, and see where the rotor is. If it is not pointing at #1, or #6, then you are obviously off, one way or the other. Remove the number one plug to make sure where you are at. Re stab the distributor so the the rotor points at the number one spark plug in the cap, and try it again.

mudbilly · Jun 29, 2010

i think it may be time to call in a pro........any good, old school garages. around your place ?

red66er · Jun 29, 2010

I'm going to give the fuel regulator a chance since I'm not getting spark once the plug is installed. I am confident now where number 1 firing position is so I just need to stop the excess fuel from the pump.

No I don't know of a good garage here. Moved here, rochester,mn, a few years back from Florida and just haven't established any of those relationships.

To bad someone on the forum doesn't live around here that would probably be as good as a garage. I have taken some of my other cars in for repairs in a couple different places with pretty crappy results. I'm kind of skiddish on trusting any one with this car. Not that it's a show piece but I just can't really afford to pay anyone the large sums of money that they would probably want to diagnose and fix what ever they think is wrong.

red66er · Jun 29, 2010

Oh yeah, I thought about the length of the pushrods too. When I ordered them I spoke with a guy at jegs and told him my set up and he recommended the length for me.

I did go back and check the lash settings but just to be sure what is a good way to check for the proper length for pushrods?

woodsnake · Jun 29, 2010

Do you have an adjustable valve train?
And, what is the part number of the cam that you used. The actual part, not "that it is for the motor"...
There are a TON of people on here who have gone thru this, including myself. I had the worst learning curve on valve train geometry!
But,we need to know some actual details, like the specs on the cam.
There is a tremendously helpful write up on s b f tech dot com on adjustable roller rockers, and how to verify correct geometry.
Again, charged battery, confirm #1 is where it's supposed to be. Take a few steps back, and create a check list so that you aren't going in circles.

Really Really need help with car not starting

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