rear suspension debate..

firemansam · May 10, 2010

i have been contemplating the rear suspension for my car, as most know its still in the concept phase as i cant touch the car for 5 more months... but i want a good suspension for the rear that is versitle since this car will do everything from autocross, drag, whatever except haul hay and firewood, well maybe a little firewood when i go on road trips to go whitewater raftin anyway... this will be a nearly daily driver, but then i am used to the rough and tough suspension of 4 wheel drives and fire trucks and i am lookin to install modern seats with good padding so... any sugestions? i have been reading up on the different ones but i am gettin confused keepin the different 3 4 5 link, gbar and God knows whatelse set ups straight in my head as of right now i am thinking stock but with all i am puttin into the car that seems a bit wrong with all the other upgades and such... i have a 9 in housing that is pretty stout so i have a good foundation... any help would be wonderful! i look forward to absorbing all the knowledge about this that i can also what kinda stances can these different setups offer!?

2+2GT · May 10, 2010

I have had excellent performance from my rear suspension in both time trial(drag) and autocross. I have the GT-rate leaf springs, Kayaba Gas-A-Just shocks, and Traction Master (not the crappy fakes) rods. Excellent response, no wheel hop. I also have done the "Arning/Shelby" drop, excellent and inexpensive, to say the least.

firemansam · May 10, 2010

2+2, thanks for the input, can you explain a little more what you mean with this "and Traction Master (not the crappy fakes) rods." and what they do for you? also i am assuming you are talking about the shelby drop in the front? if so that is part of my front suspension plan as well, along with coilover conversion and such...

everyone else, can someone explain the benefits and restrictions of the multitude of other setups? the ones i have heard the most are the 3 and 4 links and the G bar? setups... what are these about and how do the help/hinder?

Wicked65 · May 10, 2010

Talk to Alex at Money Maker Racing..see sig... Let him know that Greg From CA sent you. He will get you what you need, and have plenty of advise on what you want to do. I havn't come across anyone else that knows as much about these cars then him. He has helped me with almost my entire build. Can't say enough good about him.

S-Car-Go · May 10, 2010

This is sort of like asking people what you should have for lunch. Everyone is going to have an opinion for what THEY want. A budget would help as well.

As 2+2 pointed out, the factory rear can do a pretty good job with minimal changes, but I didn't like the traction masters and removed them. If I were to put them back on I'd try the coilovers Cobra Automotive sells instead of the standard bars. See, it's already about what "I" like. I like Bilstien shocks and others don't. Maier Racing sells leafs that are biased to the front so you don't need traction bars as well.

I'd use 4 link if I was into drag racing, but not for anything else. A 3-link or better yet a Torque Arm is what I would do (I'm toying with this for my own car). But then you won't be taking it down a dirt road.

Don't forget what you do to the rear affects the front and versa vice. They have to work together.

2+2GT · May 10, 2010

firemansam said:
2+2, thanks for the input, can you explain a little more what you mean with this "and Traction Master (not the crappy fakes) rods." and what they do for you? also i am assuming you are talking about the shelby drop in the front? if so that is part of my front suspension plan as well, along with coilover conversion and such...

Wheel hop is caused by torque twisting the axle, distorting the spring to an S shape. The TM's prevent this.

There are cheaper (not all that much cheaper) copies of the TM on eBay, etc. They are made with much thinnner tubing, and improperly offset front brackets. Real crap.

I'm not sure how the "drop" would be incorporated into a coilover conversion.

5280/4 · May 10, 2010

Okay i will give my opinion. The best universal is a 3-link. A 3-link is different than a torque arm. An adjustable 3-link will be able to perform on any track and the street. You can adjust the anti-squat and roll center. This would be my choice because I can determine the correct geometry and fabricate everything myself.

If you want the best boltin just go with the TCP g-link. Its adjustable and can work at the strip and for the corners.

firemansam · May 10, 2010

wicked~ thanks i will check that out...

S-Car-Go~ as far as budget... that will pretty much be determined by two factors, which setup i deem best for my application and how much of the setup i can fabricate on my own... but i agree it was worded a little wrong... what i am looking for is a little better in depth explanation on what each of these setups are and how they work and such like that... and since i live in rual MS i will be on gravel and dirt roads some as well as even driving off in the pasture haha this car wont be a trailer queen or even a show car although it will have many of the same trick mods and such that would make it a great show car i just cant see doin that to it! haha

firemansam · May 10, 2010

5280/4~ thanks for the opinion, so what does the 3 link consist of and how hard is it to fab? i have good skills and experience in fab and a mech engineering background (failed out before i finished cause i got bored with it and took up firefighting instead!) also can you or even someone else explain the roll center and anti squat...

firemansam · May 10, 2010

2+2~ thanks for the illustration! that makes sense!

firemansam · May 10, 2010

2+2~ thanks for the illustration! that makes sense!

S-Car-Go · May 10, 2010

Amazon.com: Chassis Engineering HP1055 (0075478010554): Herb Adams: Books

This should get you going...

firemansam · May 10, 2010

S-car-go~ thanks i will look into that but it will take nearly a month for that to reach me, in the mean time anyone got anything else?

5280/4 · May 10, 2010

firemansam said:
5280/4~ thanks for the opinion, so what does the 3 link consist of and how hard is it to fab? i have good skills and experience in fab and a mech engineering background (failed out before i finished cause i got bored with it and took up firefighting instead!) also can you or even someone else explain the roll center and anti squat...

The 3-link is the type of susepension on a new 2005+ mustang. It has 2 lower control arms that connect from the bottom of the axle housing to the chassis approximatley at the front leaf spring eye. These are usually horizontal and parralel to teh driveshaft lookign down from the top. It has 1 upper control arm that connect to the top of the axle housing to the chassis at a downward angle and parralel to the driveshaft looking down from the top.

It also has a panhard or a watts link. This will also require coilovers. A swa bar can be added if neccessary.

Anitsquat: squat is when the rear end drops under acceleration. Antisquat is when the rear end lifts. leaf spring cars with slapper or caltrack bars have over 100% antisquat and lift the body of the car under acceleration. Prostock is a 4-link rear susepnsion and they tend to squat slightly they run around 90-95%. Road race cars use around 50-70% antisquat.

roll center: when looking at the back of the car RC is the center of rotation that the body will rotate about.

The herb adams book is a great beginner read. But has great insight for a the experienced person as well.

firemansam · May 10, 2010

5280/4~ thanks man that was some great info! i am gonna look into a 3 link and see what it would take to fab one up... and i ordered the book so in about a month i should be reading on it! (hopefully) really appreciate the help everyone!

dodgestang · May 10, 2010

firemansam said:
5280/4~ thanks man that was some great info! i am gonna look into a 3 link and see what it would take to fab one up... and i ordered the book so in about a month i should be reading on it! (hopefully) really appreciate the help everyone!

I run a 3 link in my 65.
Before that I ran a 5 leaf setup with mid-eye springs and traction masters.

Going to the 3 link improved my 1/4 drag times while at the same time signifcantly improving my ride quality and improving my manuverability.

http://www.dodgestang.com/cgi-bin/pro/emAlbum.cgi?c=show_thumbs;p=2008-11-27 EVM 3 link install

2+2GT · May 10, 2010

dodgestang said:
I run a 3 link in my 65.
Before that I ran a 5 leaf… … significantly improving my ride quality…

No kidding.

firemansam · May 10, 2010

dodgestang~ thanks for the input.... can i ask where your 3 link came from and is there anything you dont like about it/ would change?

dodgestang · May 10, 2010

firemansam said:
dodgestang~ thanks for the input.... can i ask where your 3 link came from and is there anything you dont like about it/ would change?

Came from EVM, they closed up shop about 10 months ago though. They still have all the designs and might come back.

As for change...no I like it.

mtaqua · May 10, 2010

another plug for moneymaker. He's done me right, just about the best customer service I've ever ran across.

rear suspension debate..

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