RestoMod & Brakes

[streetgrande69]

baer pads are bought @ the parts store. i got my last ones @ autozone , mid 90"s vette. calipers are same. rotors are special though.

front, not sure though

just something i'm willing to deal with.

 

[Red Barchetta]

This is from mpbrakes.com

...CROSS DRILLED ROTORS Better braking performance is all about cooling down the rotor fast. When a rotor is cross drilled or slotted this helps to discharge the hot gasses that are built up and therefore cool down the rotor faster. Hence, better braking.
Although cross drilled and slotted rotors are not an absolute necessity for street use they are a relatively inexpensive upgrade when adding disc brakes.

So who knows.

Wow, I can't believe a manufacturer will actually spew that kind of crap.

Cross-drilling has nothing to do with cooling the rotor. It was intended to give the gas that would build up between the pad and rotor a place to go. The hot gasses that would build up came from the days when pads were made with asbestos. With today’s technology, that's not much of an issue unless you really overheat the pads, such as if you try taking your stock setup out on the track. You probably will experience brake fade, which could be partially caused by the pads overheating and outgassing. Cross-drilled rotors will help, but you're trading a solution for a couple of problems.

First, cross-drilled rotors are prone to cracking. Under normal driving, you probably won't have a problem. But if you plan on taking it to the track, I'd go with solid rotors. They do make cross-drilled rotors where the holes are cast instead of drilled, however the jury is still out on which one is better.

Second, rotors are heat sinks. The more mass, the more heat the rotor can absorb as well as the more heat the rotor can shed. Cross drilling the rotors reduces the ability of the rotor to absorb heat. Once again, under normal street driving, it's not really an issue because the rotors do not see high enough temperatures for it to be a problem. On the track, you're just asking for trouble. Pads are designed to operate in a certain temperature range. With the heat generated in a track environment, you risk operating outside the pads temperature range. Too high a temperature can cause a pad to literally disintegrate. That’s why when picking out a brake package, you want to match the rotors and pads to your intended usage.

Bottom line, cross-drilled rotors offer no significant advantage. They are slightly lighter, which helps with rotating mass and unsprung weight, but I don't know if it's significant enough to make a big difference. The only other thing they are good for is the bling factor. One can argue that cross-drilled rotors come on high-end cars like Ferraris and Porsches, so they must be good. My response to that is how many racecars do you see with cross-drilled rotors? More often than not, if they’re not ceramic rotors, they are solid. Ask anyone who runs AI/X if they run cross-drilled rotors.

But then don't just take my word for it, see what Baer, StopTech and Wilwood have to say.

 

[bnickel]

hey RED i understand about the cross drilling but what about slotted? do the same things hold true for them as the drilled? i am planning on using slotted and just want to see what your opinion is of them. i'll be getting them anyway, though. i have no idea if they really offer a stopping advantage or not maybe i will test them and see when i get them once the car is at that stage. i do see one advantage to the slotted rotors in wet weather though if the slot is designed to allow out-gassing i think the same would hold true for water or more correctly water vapor (steam) so they may not have much affect in dry conditions but the wet conditions is enough for me to at least give them a try, we do not have the best drainage system here and our city is really flat so there isn't much of a place for standing water to go, if the slotted will give any kind of benefit it is worth it to me to give it a try.

 

[BAD67FUN]

Ahhhhhhhhh, who gives a chit!!! Go with what LOOKS cool... ha ha!!

 

[bud4660]

hey RED i understand about the cross drilling but what about slotted? do the same things hold true for them as the drilled? i am planning on using slotted and just want to see what your opinion is of them. i'll be getting them anyway, though. i have no idea if they really offer a stopping advantage or not maybe i will test them and see when i get them once the car is at that stage. i do see one advantage to the slotted rotors in wet weather though if the slot is designed to allow out-gassing i think the same would hold true for water or more correctly water vapor (steam) so they may not have much affect in dry conditions but the wet conditions is enough for me to at least give them a try, we do not have the best drainage system here and our city is really flat so there isn't much of a place for standing water to go, if the slotted will give any kind of benefit it is worth it to me to give it a try.

The slotted ones is the ones I ordered with the kit. My car is drag only. I was worried about brake fade and heat on short shutdown areas. And I cant tell you how many cars I have seen running Wilwood brakes that have put them in the wall from front brake lockup. No thanks I'll pass on those.

 

[Red Barchetta]

hey RED i understand about the cross drilling but what about slotted? do the same things hold true for them as the drilled?

From what I've seen at the track, as well as what others have said on some of the other forums I frequent and the manufacturer websites I've read, all agree that slotted is the way to go over cross-drilled for performance use. Just make sure you get a quality rotor and match your pads according to your intended use.

If you have a lot of time, and I mean A LOT... (it's 30 pages), read this thread: Crossdrilled/slotted rotors-why they are like this, like that-final discussion. Yes, I learned about this thread from Corner-Carvers.com and yes there were some c-c members who laid the smack down in a way that might hurt some people's feelings, but you can not deny the tech provided to help those misguided people make an educated conclusion on their own. It's definitely worth a read. I just wouldn't try reading it all at once.

 

[7DMACH1]

Another vote for MP Brakes. I bought their kit for $689.00 to convert my 70 Mach from manual drum to manual disc, two years ago. I LOVE them!!!

 

[bnickel]

red, thanks for the link. i'll give it a read when i get some time off, LOL

 

[eric n]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...tem=2479110267&category=33564&sspagename=WDVW

seems like a really strong deal. Wilwoods for 651.00. Guy seems to sell about a bazillion of them.

 

[BAD67FUN]

The variables that drive the costs on brakes are endless.

Everyone keeps throwing out names and costs. But you have to compare apples to apples when considerring your application.

Calipers and rotor diameters, kits, complete or partial. Etc, etc.

Sure, brand X has a complete kit for X amount of money.... okay, but what calipers? Are you talking a 10" rotor or a 13" rotor.

Ya gotta break chit down and compare like kits...

Good luck.

 

[LanceMach]

Since you said "kit" I'll leave the Granada conversion out (it might be one of the cheapest ways to get discs, but does require time and effort to gather the parts).

Here's my two cents based on what I've experienced (or cent-and-a-quarter - I hear inflation's coming back...):

Wilwood - I have had Wilwoods on my car for over 5 years. The setup I got was a very early set and I have had several issues getting them to work right on the track. I think they've solved many of the issues, but I still don't recommend them for the street. Main reason is maintenance: they require a fair amount of care and feeding and setting them up is more involved than some of the other options (e.g., safety wire is required in several places, calipers have to be unbolted to be bled properly, then re-centered with shims and re-safety wired, etc.).

Baer - great-looking brakes, but very expensive, so they are probably out of the discussion for that reason alone. Can't say much about performance because I've never used them (must be good because they cost so much - right? ).

SSBC - This would be my choice for a street car. I've had my car since 1980 and I have a brochure from SSBC for Mustangs brakes from the early 80's(from when I was a kid and couldn't afford them!). They've been at this a long time and their kit is pretty much soup-to-nuts, with components that they know work well together from experience. Pads can usually be bought at the local parts store and performance is quite good (three of my friends run them on Road Racing courses with me and they brake quite well - pad selection is a huge factor in how your brakes perform). Now, with the performance kits that they offer, their kits make a lot of sense from my perspective.

Again, take this for what it's worth (it's free and may be worth every penny!).

 

[BAD67FUN]

I should contact Baer to see if they'll give me any type of kick back for schilling their name.

Because again, you have to compare apples to apples.

I researched this brake issue over the winter. My top requirement was to fit as large a rotor I could with my 17" wheels. So 13" rotors were the goal. After comparing Baer to SSBC, the cost was just about dead even. So I went with the "name".

I will not discuss opinions on slotting and cross drilling. Everyone's got one. And it's usually slanted towards whatever they have on their car.

So do what you feel is right and live with it...

 

[bud4660]

Well I choose the kit from NPD with the slotted rotors because its complete from the master cylinder out. Comes with bearings, seals, proportioning valve, hoses, pads, shields, brackets. The factory type new calipers with stainless steel sleeves , which is what I wanted. All you do is add brake fluid and grease. Now I could have bought just the pieces I needed and pieced the thing together since I already have disc brakes. But I dont have time to go here and go there. It was the easiest way for me.

 

[TT670]

I can vouch from experience that slotted rotors are harder on the pads, and I dont think the brakes worked any better at all. Just made alot more dust and required more frequent pad replacement.

 

[Red Barchetta]

I can vouch from experience that slotted rotors are harder on the pads, and I dont think the brakes worked any better at all. Just made alot more dust and required more frequent pad replacement.

There's more to it than just the rotors being slotted. Pad composition is a huge factor. There are pads that won't last 2 track days, and there are others that will eat your rotors by the time they're done. Also, different calipers will have different pad area. A larger pad area helps the pads live longer since there is more pad to consume, as well as being able to absorb more heat.

Having to choose between pad composition and pad area, pick composition. Just out of curiosity, what pads are you running? Did you ever try switching to a different kind?

 

[bud4660]

Brake kit update: It just came in. The box has SSBC wrote on it. So now we know what you get from NPD when you order a kit.
Now I guess I have to go work on it this weekend.....

 

[DarkBuddha]

To answer the original question, I know there is an 11" disc conversion kit available with brand new components that is under $400 (complete). When I find it at home tonight I'll post it...