Roller cam retrofit into a 351W question

jerry S · Sep 19, 2006

I am dropping my engine to pull the heads and intake to send out for porting. While those items are off, I am thinking that this would be a good opportunity to add a roller cam and pick up a few more ponies here and there. However, I don't want to have to do any machine work as this is an otherwise in service engine. I don't want to have to do any grinding or drilling that will fill the engine's innards with metal shavings. Can somebody tell me what is involved with retrofitting a roller cam in a 351W block and which are the better hydraulic rollers out there? I think I will do a custom grind to match my head's flow numbers.

ttfn,

jS

Spoofty · Sep 19, 2006

You just need to buy a set of retrofit roller lifters. Each pair have a locking bar holding them together stopping them from spinning. They just drop in the stock lifter location with no block mods. You can get them from places like Summit or Jegs from $250-$350 I belive. Just remember to change you distributor drive gear when changing to roller cam.

GoinBroke · Sep 19, 2006

I would give this guy a call (http://www.camshaftinnovations.com/)
and he will do the custom cam and set you up with what you need. Be prepared for the cost to do it right though as you are looking at a custom cam, valve springs, push rods and the very pricey link bar roller lifters. What kind of heads are you running?

jerry S · Sep 19, 2006

GoinBroke said:
I would give this guy a call (http://www.camshaftinnovations.com/)
and he will do the custom cam and set you up with what you need. Be prepared for the cost to do it right though as you are looking at a custom cam, valve springs, push rods and the very pricey link bar roller lifters. What kind of heads are you running?

After running the numbers, I think I might pass on going roller.

the cam I would use (crane cam part number 449561) is $410 while the lifters (crane 36532-16) are another $460. Then I need new pushrods (at least another $100) to replace the pushrods I just bought ($100), and prolly other stuff like new valve springs. I am looking at not less than a grand in parts excluding labor and my conclusion is that I don't think it is worth it for 25-30 extra hp.

SoCalCruising · Sep 19, 2006

You don't need a retrofit cam. You use a standard hyd. roller cam when using the linkbar lifters. $410 seems like a lot - is that because of shipping/duty? The Crane lifters are usually $400-410. Still pricey, though.

jerry S · Sep 20, 2006

SoCalCruising said:
You don't need a retrofit cam. You use a standard hyd. roller cam when using the linkbar lifters. $410 seems like a lot - is that because of shipping/duty? The Crane lifters are usually $400-410. Still pricey, though.

$410 is the price at summit for just the cam. I don't see 30 hp as worth it just for almost $1k.

GoinBroke · Sep 20, 2006

Me neither Jerry. I am hoping to fire my engine for the first time within a month and have been very worried about the premature failure of flat tappets lately. If I have one which wipes the lobes off I might save up for a roller instead of rolling the dice again on a standard.

jerry S · Sep 20, 2006

GoinBroke said:
Me neither Jerry. I am hoping to fire my engine for the first time within a month and have been very worried about the premature failure of flat tappets lately. If I have one which wipes the lobes off I might save up for a roller instead of rolling the dice again on a standard.

A replacement flat tappet cam is prolly $150 or less with lifters not costing anything either. Even if my cam goes flat, I doubt I'll use the opportunity to go roller. I can add a sweet 2 stage nitrous system with all kinds of fancy electri controls for a grand and get far more out of it.

Spoofty · Sep 20, 2006

The whole flat tappets gone bad issue latley has got me worried too. I have 2 spare 302 roller blocks and a spare 351. I also have a nice 286 TFS roller cam. I really want to stroke the 351 and go roller. But if I retro fit it with the stock roller assembely I need the special retro small base cam. If I use the TFS cam I have then I have to buy the retro fit lifters . So maybe I will stroke one of the 302's .

jerry S · Sep 20, 2006

Spoofty said:
The whole flat tappets gone bad issue latley has got me worried too. .

Has this suddenly become a problem? Is there some kind of epidemic of cams going flat lately?

I know cams can go flat if not broken in correctly or having spring pressures that are too high. But has this suddenly become a problem?

Spoofty · Sep 20, 2006

From what I've been reading, with todays modern roller valve trains and in the intrest of the enviroment the oil companies are putting alot less addives in the oil that was primarily for valve train lube. That's why you read of people at this forum breaking in their cams with Rotella, it has one of the highest amount of the additive. But it is still low compared to the oil of the 70's. There's also additives you can buy (I think it a GM addive) that is recomended during cam breakin. I've heard you should use both.
I've not had any trouble yet. But I have a pretty agresive solid lifter cam with daul valve springs and it see's alot of 7000rpm. And I think future plans have the oil's going even lower.

jerry S · Sep 20, 2006

Spoofty said:
From what I've been reading, with todays modern roller valve trains and in the intrest of the enviroment the oil companies are putting alot less addives in the oil that was primarily for valve train lube. That's why you read of people at this forum breaking in their cams with Rotella, it has one of the highest amount of the additive. But it is still low compared to the oil of the 70's. There's also additives you can buy (I think it a GM addive) that is recomended during cam breakin. I've heard you should use both.
I've not had any trouble yet. But I have a pretty agresive solid lifter cam with daul valve springs and it see's alot of 7000rpm. And I think future plans have the oil's going even lower.

I believe the additive you are talking about is zinc. I know that people with flat tappet cams have had problems with cams going flat when using synthetic oils that have reduced levels of zinc. However, Rotella synthetic is supposed to have the highest amounts of zinc of any synthetic oil.

As for me, my cam was broken in by running it under load on a dyno for 20 minutes while using a mineral oil. The oil was then changed to a regular motor oil. I will go 3k miles and then switch to a synthetic (with plenty of zinc!!)

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=648800&highlight=synthetic+oil+zinc

jerry S · Sep 20, 2006

sorry. double-posted

GoinBroke · Sep 20, 2006

Yep the ZDDP content , combination of zinc and phosphorous, has been reduced in the commercial blends of oil lately. I am following the Comp Cam directions to the letter during the breakin process and keeping my fingers crossed. I have heard of cams going bad even with the Rotella T and the EOS additive so I am still worried.

bnickel · Sep 20, 2006

i brole my cam in on on regular old castrol 20w50 and it's fine, that was a couple years ago but i think the zinc additive problem has been around for at least that long.

zookeeper · Sep 20, 2006

There was also an article in Hot Rod mag a while back addressing the issue. They seemed to think it was an inferior metal problem. I'll have to go back and re-read it, but it was a very interesting read.

S-Car-Go · Sep 20, 2006

Jay Allen (Camshaft Innovations) grinds a lot more cams than just rollers. You may get that 20-30hp (across a broad range) from a custom ground flat tappet cam. At least it will be optimized for your heads, comp, weight, trans, gears, etc.. Thought about going with a SFT, if you don't have one now? Custom flat tappet cams are cheaper than you think.

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