roller pitman/idler

[Opentracker]

I had one of those K8158 here to look at. It has grease fittings at each end and will not take a roller kit. I tried to move the drag link end of the thing (right side) and I couldn't. I'm not sure what they have in there. If I wanted a roller idler arm on a later car, I would use two roller kits with an original type arm. One at each end. I believe the bushings are diffenent at each end, so it would take two different kits. The K8158 would have more bind than a true roller bearing arm IMO. With that said, the K8158 would have to be better than an early style arm from a daily driver standpoint. If someone has a used idler arm from a 67-68 Mustang, I could use one for some R&D work.


John

 

[Jester67]

I had one of those K8158 here to look at. It has grease fittings at each end and will not take a roller kit. I tried to move the drag link end of the thing (right side) and I couldn't. I'm not sure what they have in there. If I wanted a roller idler arm on a later car, I would use two roller kits with an original type arm. One at each end. I believe the bushings are diffenent at each end, so it would take two different kits. The K8158 would have more bind than a true roller bearing arm IMO. With that said, the K8158 would have to be better than an early style arm from a daily driver standpoint. If someone has a used idler arm from a 67-68 Mustang, I could use one for some R&D work.


John

I will send you mine when it comes off but that will be a little while say 2 months

 

[Opentracker]

Thank you but I would like to work on one soon. Just a junk piece with two worn bushings would be great. Something I can try and fit roller kit's into. They made a PS and manual arm, I'd like to get both done.

John

 

[joesgt281]

Thank you but I would like to work on one soon. Just a junk piece with two worn bushings would be great. Something I can try and fit roller kit's into. They made a PS and manual arm, I'd like to get both done.

John

Hey John, did you ever do any development on this?

Joe

 

[joesgt281]

oops, my bad, later thread:
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=587936&highlight="roller+idler+arm"

 

[Opentracker]

I bought an idler arm that has the same bushing as the new Moog K8158. I put it in the vise and the end with the sleeve turned nice and smooth. I think the other arm I looked at was stuck from the factory. I would say that other that an original arm with two roller kits, the K8158 is the idler arm to use for the 67-up cars. I am having no luck putting roller kits in original arms so the Moog arm may be the only choice. We'll see.


John

 

[joesgt281]

I bought an idler arm that has the same bushing as the new Moog K8158. I put it in the vise and the end with the sleeve turned nice and smooth. I think the other arm I looked at was stuck from the factory. I would say that other that an original arm with two roller kits, the K8158 is the idler arm to use for the 67-up cars. I am having no luck putting roller kits in original arms so the Moog arm may be the only choice. We'll see.


John

Just another datapoint on a 67, manual steering car....here's mine:

 

[joesgt281]

I had one of those K8158 here to look at. It has grease fittings at each end and will not take a roller kit. I tried to move the drag link end of the thing (right side) and I couldn't. I'm not sure what they have in there. If I wanted a roller idler arm on a later car, I would use two roller kits with an original type arm. One at each end. I believe the bushings are diffenent at each end, so it would take two different kits. The K8158 would have more bind than a true roller bearing arm IMO. With that said, the K8158 would have to be better than an early style arm from a daily driver standpoint. If someone has a used idler arm from a 67-68 Mustang, I could use one for some R&D work.


John

Here's a bit more info for 67ers like me....
I confirmed that the Moog K8158 is for PS cars.
Moog makes one similar for manual steering cars like mine, K8161.
Here's some pics below, as compared with my original.

 

[Opentracker]

Very Cool, I wonder what the difference is between the K8158 and K8161. Let us know if it helps the steering.


John

 

[joesgt281]

Very Cool, I wonder what the difference is between the K8158 and K8161. Let us know if it helps the steering.


John

I may be able to do a side by side comparison because I think I may have screwed up by getting the manual idler....necessitating a trip back to OReillys to get the K8158.
Reason being, I'm going to switch out my 19:1 manual steering box for a 16:1 guick ratio box (aka Power Steering box).
So....I guess that means I'll need the PS idler arm (K8158)....I think.....maybe....oh hell, i don't know!

 

[joesgt281]

Like Opentracker has said, this new Moog design (M2), may be about as close to a roller bearing setup as you can get.
True, it's not a real roller, but it's a HELLUVA improvement over the original design.
Check out the cutaway

 

[66moneypit]

Like Opentracker has said, this new Moog design (M2), may be about as close to a roller bearing setup as you can get.
True, it's not a real roller, but it's a HELLUVA improvement over the original design.
Check out the cutaway

Joe....I gotta here how that works out for you bud...very cool cut-away pic.

 

[joesgt281]

Very Cool, I wonder what the difference is between the K8158 and K8161. Let us know if it helps the steering.


John

Okay, here's the dealio....
the Manual Steering K8161 and the Power Steering K8158 appear at first to be identical.

Turns out that the drag link end is the difference. The K8161 sleeve has a smaller i.d. than the K8158. The K8158 would have been very loose on my car.

There is another difference though....
The sleeve in the drag link end is quite a bit longer on the K8158 than the K8161.
I'm very pleased with this new M2 design and expect it to work very well.
Thanks for everybodys help.

Joe

 

[Opentracker]

Well, it took me three years but I did it. A true roller idler for the 67-70 cars. It's a combo of machine work on the idler arm, idler kits from different cars (not all Ford) that needed machine work also and hardware. I made both the P/S and M/S units. They look the same so I only put up one photo, this is a M/S unit. I'm not sure what retail price is yet but they won't be cheap. Figure the cost of our regular roller idler for the early cars, plus a frame bracket, second roller kit and machine work. It is cool looking though, I've never seen one before today.

 

[bnickel]

Well, it took me three years but I did it. A true roller idler for the 67-70 cars. It's a combo of machine work on the idler arm, idler kits from different cars (not all Ford) that needed machine work also and hardware. I made both the P/S and M/S units. They look the same so I only put up one photo, this is a M/S unit. I'm not sure what retail price is yet but they won't be cheap. Figure the cost of our regular roller idler for the early cars, plus a frame bracket, second roller kit and machine work. It is cool looking though, I've never seen one before today.

wow that's awesome John!!!! almost makes me want to keep the old worm/sector gear box in the 69 cougar, almost. i already have a TCP rack that i scored on ebay a couple years back for a less than $300 shipping included, however it is just the rack itself so i'll need to buy the install kit before i can actually use it in the cougar, of course. if i didn't already have the rack i would resume my search for an integral power gear box to replace the stock box and bendix power steering system. i know that ABS power brake has that power gear box kit that uses the toyota corona gear box but i'm not all that impressed with that kit, i've been wanting to try and find an early 70's f-100 power gear box and see if i can do some hacking to make it work but it's not real high on my priority list right now.

still though, i've never been one for doing things the easy way so i may go ahead and tackle that project before i full commit to the rack and order the install kit. gotta sell the stang and buy a house with a garage before i can really tackle another project of that caliber in addittion to restoing/modding the cougar too.


i've got some more ideas for that roller coilover thing i've talked to you about before as well, specifically a way to mount the upper end of the coilover without disturbing the upper spring pocket area of the shock tower. anyway, we'll get into that more once i have some money to send your way.

 

[Opentracker]

I still have the photo's of that coil over with the Ford arms. I'll be glad to make you anything you want.

 

[bnickel]

I still have the photo's of that coil over with the Ford arms. I'll be glad to make you anything you want.

yep that's pretty much exactly what i want and i've found a way to attach the top of the coilover without doing anything drastic to the shock towers too. basically the way Dolfan87 did his on the mach but slightly different. i've also found a cool LCA strut rod that basically converts the LCA to an actual A-arm from Heidts.

here is a link to the Heidts strut rod. it is intended for a mustang II LCA actualy but i think it will also work on a classic too.

Tubular Strut Rod Kit

this strut rod with one of your roller bearing conversions would be really cool and i think i've figured out a really sneaky way to attach it without cutting the strut rod supports to hell too, though they will need to cut up some, the original front mounting point will stay in place so i can attach some rubber bushings with a bolt or something and make it less noticeable, smae with the upper shock mounts too, i'll cut a shock up and bolt it to the upper mount for even more of a stealth aspect.

what do you think about doing something like that John?