Running Rich issue

JenkinsBS · Oct 20, 2010

Running Rich issue * FIXED 1/8/11 *

Hey guys,

So as some of you may have read, im having issues with my car running rich. The problem started when i got my car back from the shop that had it.

The car was converted to MAF by the previous owner, and it ran fine, so i know the MAF harness and all is hooked up properly.

The issue is the car fumes up my whole neighborhood with exhaust, smells very much like gas. You can see the exaust coming from the pipes pretty thick, and straight smells like gas. I had KOER codes (i believe) ran on the car, and everything checked out ok.

I thought the problem may be the injectors and MAF not being calibrated (14#ers with a 18# calibrated MAF), so i got my 30# injectors that i recently got back from the shop (cause i thought they were going to use them, but didnt), and installed them with my 30# calibrated MAF, reset the idle by disconnecting spout and IAC, setting to about 800 rpm, and disconnecting the battery and letting sit for a while.

Hooked her back up, car fires just fine, idles fine, but still pumps out clouds of gas smelling exhaust. Ive searched the forums, but am unable to find anything that would address this issue... The diagrams that JRicher posts help, but its still kind of like reading a map written in chineese to me

Is there anything anyone can think of that would be causing this problem? Vaccum hose hooked up into the intake wrong? Maybe a bad fuel pressure regulator, anything?

JenkinsBS · Oct 20, 2010

Also the stock H Pipe is still on the car, but the smog pump is not hooked up and the air line has been welded off on the H-pipe... dont know if that could cause any running rich issues either

Pod · Oct 20, 2010

Have you checked the timing?
Vacuum with a gauge?

If it's stock heads/engine, maybe the 30# injectors are just too big, even if they are calibrated?

JenkinsBS · Oct 20, 2010

It is ported e7 heads and a different cam (installed by previous owner), and ported intake, they all ran fine before the car sat for a while and the shop took it to fix

i dont have a vaccum gague to check it that way, ive tried to make sure all the lines are properly connected and sealed.

I dont know if the 30#'s would make it keep doing this. Its basically the same thing that was going on when i had the MAF for my 18s in there with 14# injectors, still ran rich...

the only thing now im realy thinking of is a bad FPR or vaccum leak somewhere. But on a side note, my cruise control does work, and i believe that is controlled by vaccum.

JenkinsBS · Oct 20, 2010

So after looking around a bit more, i found these! 2 vaccum hoses that connect to nothing, also there is a power plug that is just there, not plugged into anything, nor do i see anything to plug it into

coming from here

It looks like it is where my EGR regulator is, 2 hoses go off and connect, then these 2 are just left open? I have no more charchol box which is what i think they connect to, i really cant see any other place they would go...

Should i plug them if my smog pump is all plugged and egr blocked? Could this be causing the problems? i dont want to plug them, start it, and have somthing go horibally wrong...

f8tlfiveo · Oct 20, 2010

That looks like the low pressure plug for the a/c.. That wont hurt anything.. With the cats not working it will smell like gas.. My clothes stick after I drive my car.. If your smog pump isn't hooked up that could clog your cats up if I'm not mistaken..

JenkinsBS · Oct 20, 2010

well im about to go out and buy some breaklean and spray it all over my block and hoses, and listen for my idle to go up, and try to see if i can find out where this leak (if there is one) is coming from

and this isnt just the smell of gas, the car is putting out clouds of exhaust which reek of gas, its a whiteish smoke that is coming out, but im not losing any coolant.

JenkinsBS · Oct 20, 2010

Well i guess i should have started by checking this, most reason why cars run like crap or dont run at all...

i checked the wires to cap locations, and they were all out of whack. So i placed the proper wires to the proper terminals for the HO firing order, and now the car will not fire up.

Does this sound to anyone else like the dizzy is in 180 backwards?

jrichker · Oct 20, 2010

Just in case you missed somethong on the code dump...

Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs

Revised 19-May-2009 to update drawing for dumping the codes on 86-88 Mustangs with no check engine light.

Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…Codes may be present in the computer even if the Check Engine light isn’t on.

Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.

Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.

Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

See http://www.troublecodes.net/Ford/

If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.

The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.

What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.

Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see Digital Ford Code Reader (3145) – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.

JenkinsBS · Oct 20, 2010

Ok, so correct me if i am wrong, but here is what i did...

removed #1 plug
unplugged the coil from dizzy, bumped motor over and kept checking the balancer to see if it was at or around the 0 mark (im by myself right now)

then checked the #1 spark plug hole w a screw driver to see if the piston was at the top of the chamber.

After a while, i got it to be AROUND the 0 mark, not exact, but im just checking at this point, AND #1 cylender was at the top of the chamber.

So i took of my dizzy cap at this point and saw that the rotor was pointing at me! Around the 5 oclock-ish area. If it was correct, i should have seen it around the 10 - 12 oclock ish? (due to not being exactly at 0)

*EDIT*

Roommate got home and he put his thumb over the #1 hole while i bumped the motor over, he felt compression, balancer is near 0, dizzy rotor pointing around 3-4 oclock ish... i would say thats 180 off?

YawnY · Oct 20, 2010

Id say go buy a $15 timing light to check your timing. If it's 180 out the car will turn over super slow and probably backfire

jrichker · Oct 21, 2010

Putting the distributor back in is fairly simple. Pull #1 sparkplug, put your finger in the sparkplug hole,
crank the engine until you feel compression. Then line up the TDC mark on the balancer with the pointer
on the engine block.

The distributor starts out with the #1 plug wire lined up at about 12:00 with you facing it. Align the rotor
to about 11:00, since it will turn clockwise as it slides into place.

Align the distributor rotor up with the #1 position marked on the cap, slide the distributor down into the block,
(you may have to wiggle the rotor slightly to get the gear to engage) and then note where the rotor is pointing.
If it still lines up with #1 position on the cap, install the clamp and bolt. If not, pull it out and turn 1 tooth forwards or backwards and try again. Put the #1 spark plug back in and tighten it down, put the clamp on the distributor, but don't tighten it too much, as you will have to move the distributor to set the timing. Note that there is no such thing as one tooth off on a 5.0 Mustang. If it doesn't align perfectly with #1 position, you can turn the distributor until it does. The only problem is that if you are too far one way or the other, you can't turn the distributor enough to get the 10-14 degree optimum timing range.

10 degrees BTC is towards the drivers side marks.

Simplified diagram of what it looks like. Not all the marks are shown for ease of viewing.

ATC ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '!' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' BTC
---------------- > Direction of Rotation as viewed standing in front of the engine.

The ' is 2 degrees.
The ! is TDC
The ' is 10 degrees BTC
Set the timing 5 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 5 marks towards the driver's side.

At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light and start the engine. Set the timing where your car
runs best. Don't forget to disconnect the SPOUT jumper connector when you set the timing, and plug it back
in when you finish.

The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

JenkinsBS · Oct 21, 2010

soooo, yes, sounds like dizzy is 180 off? im going to yank it today (following your instruction jrichker ) and put it to where it should be, make sure to hook up the HO firing order, and pray to god it fixes my missing/shaky idle/running extra rich issue.

Im also going to have to go buy new spark plugs, as mine are all fouled now due to the running rich issue.

HISSIN50 · Oct 21, 2010

Yeah, you were 180 out.

Be sure to reference the wires to the cap's notation of cylinder number 1. Unlike old carbed cars where you could move the wires around however you wanted (as long as they were in the correct order), these cars require the wires to be indexed with the cap so the fuel injector timing is correct.

Good luck.

JenkinsBS · Oct 21, 2010

UPdate

Alright

so today i bought a timing gun, and started going at it. just took the clamp holding the dizzy down off, pulled up gently till the gears disengaged, turned rotor to correct location on the cap #1 post, little farther to the right as it did turn as it went down and in, about 11oclock, re checked firing order, started right up and timed it to about 5-8ish btdc.

Now, i know for a fact my plugs are fouled right now, pretty badly. So when i started her up tonight, it still put out a fair amount of exhaust cloud that smelled of gas (with no air hose for cats, its to be expected, to a point)

So ill be replacing plugs tomorrow to see if that helps the running rich.

Now with my air hose not hooked up, bunghole on pipe is welded shut, and cats still being on the car be causing all this smoke? I dont want to think im running rich when its just blockage in my cats.

HISSIN50 · Oct 21, 2010

You would want to re-establish the air supply to the cats if you plan on keeping them around (and they're the OEM version, which require an outside supply of air).

Damaging the cats in the meanwhile is a valid concern. I think you'll find the issue lies elsewhere however.

If you can, I would retrieve codes (so you know what's there as your baseline) and then clear the KAM (do it with a battery-disconnect so any bad adaptive behavior is forgotten), run it and pull codes again.

You have a lot of variables, esp with the injectors and MAF situation. If you can safely let it run for a bit, I'd just try to see what it's doing (unless you can datalog and/or have a WB).

Just MHO.

Rick James · Oct 23, 2010

Any updates?

JenkinsBS · Nov 14, 2010

Ok, so here it is, and im still confused and worried now that i know it may be somthing much deeper in the engine that has the problem...

Replaced the spark plugs (cause i wanted to), and took off ALL the old exhaust, down to stock headers. I put my new MAC O/R hpipe on with no cats (thinking that may have been what is causing it to smoke so badly), but the damn thing is still smoking like a chimney.

There is a bluish tint to the smoke, and it does smell like gas, but it holds an idle fine, rev's fine, dosent stall or hesitate when being revv'ed...

So somehow oil is burning and / or still getting too much gas, causing it to smoke so badly.

Another worry point is the fact that my oil currently smells kind of strong like gas. Could this be from it being ran so much (grandpa driving it and not knowing) having the dizzy 180 out and mis fires on cylenders, or maybe it wasnt broken in right and a piston ring did not seal right?

I know some people may say it has somthing to do with the 30# injectors and MAF, but it was still smoking like this when i had the old 14#'s with the 19# MAF

I guess somthing else i remembered is it did not start really smoking like this till i turned the MAP into a barometric sensor and plugged the other line into the intake manifold... is there somthing else that needs to be done when the shop tried to hook it back up like it was an SD car?

87lc2 · Nov 15, 2010

The oil has gas in it from running so rich for so long. The blue smoke you are seeing out the tailpipes is oil. This could be rings, or it could be that the gas has thinned the oil out so much that it is now getting past the rings. I saw this on a supercharged 07 GT i was working on a few months back. Whatever you do, change the oil ASAP. As far as the injectors, just put some stock injectors/maf on so you can rule that out. Any oil on the plugs when you changed them>?

JenkinsBS · Nov 17, 2010

I will definatly change the oil ASAP before i start it again.

When i took the plugs out, there was some oil on the threads, but the electrodes seemed dry, just very very black.

After the oil change, if that dosent work, i think i am going to try unplugging my MAF, and hooking the MAP back up... see what happens.

Running Rich issue

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