Shop Trying To Screw Me During An Alignment?

Braden65 · Oct 9, 2015

The only shop in town that can do an alignment on my 65 is telling me I need adjustable strut rods to get my caster (which i know and understand) right. But My tires have less than 3k miles on them and they're almost ruined on the inside shoulder from wear from excessive negative camber. I gave the shop the daze cars Shelby drop alignment spec which should have been 0, -.5 of negative camber. I showed them the wear on my tires and he's blaming it on me not having adjustable strut rods and him needing that to get it right. To me that sounds crazy. I'm sure he tried to get the caster as far as he could with the shims but the camber is crazy. What do you guys think. Just shim it myself or strut rods needed or did he half ass it hoping I'd buy his expensive parts that he seems to be pushing? My passenger side uca have no shims and my driver side uca have around 1/4-1/2" or so of shims each.

Braden65 · Oct 9, 2015

I do have the Shelby drop done btw

horse sence · Oct 9, 2015

Very few shops know how to align a 65 -66 mustang .Ford didnt seem to have a problem aligning them back in the day even with non adjustable radius rods .The alignment is done through shims and is a tedious job and most shops do not want to take the time to do it properly .An adjustable radius rod would solve a lot of the problem however it will still need shims to get the proper settings . One side not having shims doesn't sound right ,if anything there would be more after all this time .I have seen stacks around 1/2 inch thick .

90sickfox · Oct 9, 2015

Take it to a place known for aligning trucks they'll know how to get it done right and won't be afraid of shims. That alignment looks ridiculous. Caster also doesn't cause tire wear. Camber and toe do.

Braden65 · Oct 9, 2015

horse sence said:
Very few shops know how to align a 65 -66 mustang .Ford didnt seem to have a problem aligning them back in the day even with non adjustable radius rods .The alignment is done through shims and is a tedious job and most shops do not want to take the time to do it properly .An adjustable radius rod would solve a lot of the problem however it will still need shims to get the proper settings . One side not having shims doesn't sound right ,if anything there would be more after all this time .I have seen stacks around 1/2 inch thick .

Them not wanting to take their time sounds about right. And that's what I was wondering how the hell did Ford do it without the adjustable back then. I might have to tackle it myself. Thanks

Braden65 · Oct 9, 2015

90sickfox said:
Take it to a place known for aligning trucks they'll know how to get it done right and won't be afraid of shims. That alignment looks ridiculous. Caster also doesn't cause tire wear. Camber and toe do.

Thanks for the reassurance I figured he was full of it. I asked him to explain to me how caster would affect the camber and he didn't answer me. I called a few shops around my area and they all seemed to have no idea about the alignment. At least not within a reasonable price range and at the risk of getting the same trash results I may be better off investing in the cheaper home alignment gear.

horse sence · Oct 9, 2015

HAHA ! i just looked at the picture ...i could have done better than that with a tape measure and a level . Now did you give them the Shelby street specs or the Shelby race specs ?

Braden65 · Oct 9, 2015

horse sence said:
HAHA ! i just looked at the picture ...i could have done better than that with a tape measure and a level . Now did you give them the Shelby street specs or the Shelby race specs ?

Please align to these specs “1960-1966 Mustang and Falcon Performance Alignment with or without UCA drop”.

These specifications are in order of importance.

1. NO more than .25 degrees difference between driver’s side and passenger’s side.

2. +2.0 to +3.5 degrees caster.
NOTE: for cars with Adjustable strut rods. Please attain as much caster as possible using the shims (at least 1.5 to 2.0 degrees), and then use the adjustable strut rods to increase the caster and make the sides the same. Also, please note that the caster difference between the driver’s side and passenger’s side needs to have no more .25 degrees difference prior to the adjustment of the strut rods.

3. -.5 to 0 degrees camber. No positive camber, please. There is no problem having a slight variation from driver’s side to passenger’s side to account for the crown in the road.

4. 1/16" to 1/8” toe in

But he said he wasn't able to set everything like the paper said, do to me not buying the $450 adjustable arms. Being my first alignment after the Shelby drop I thought maybe the extreme negative was normal. Took me a little to long to realize it wasn't. I already added a .015 shim all around but I have no idea what the ideal amount of shimming I should be doing. Other than eyeballing it.

90sickfox · Oct 9, 2015

The hard part is that ( I believe your car should be aligned with both front wheels off the ground. If you take measurements of it sitting on the ground. To do correctly you would have to jack up the front and remove all the shims...tighten everything up snug and put it on the ground. Measure the camber of both front wheels. You can use a string with a weight on the end ( plumb line ). When adjusting camber like this I try to measure on the same plain...or line...as the upper ball joint on the outside of the rim with a measuring tape. The plumb line is the marker for the measuring tape. The string is true verticle. The distance from the spot level with the ball joint and the string is how much shim you need. You could even use a protractor to dial in your camber by degree. No need to buy expensive equipment. For the toe straighten the steering wheel and run a string from the back of the rear tire. When the string just barely touches both sides of the face of the rear wheel gently run it to the front wheel barely touching the face of the front wheel. The string will reveal where your toe needs to be adjusted. Camber is done first then toe. If you can get the camber right and the toe close you can take it anywhere and get them to set the toe. I'm a mechanic and I'd never let a car leave my hands sitting like that... Whether I use a 40 grand alignment computer or a string it would be done better than that. Caster is how far forward or backwards the wheel sits in the wheel well. If they sit too far back it'll cause the car to pull into turns.... The farther forward the less it wants to pull itself into a curve. Caster too far back makes you have to manually turn the wheel out of a curve. The sweet spot will allow the car to correct itself out of a curve...setting the steering wheel back straight.

horse sence · Oct 9, 2015

I did a quick alignment on my 65 fast back using a level with a degree wheel and set the toe with a tape measure .
The shop we use to have our mustangs aligned locally told me i was dead on on one side and just slightly off on the other .it only took them a few minutes to correct it and he couldn't believe i did it this way . Summit has a nice magnetic camber caster gauge that sets on the end of the hub with the dust cup removed ,i want to get one .

Braden65 · Oct 9, 2015

90sickfox said:
The hard part is that ( I believe your car should be aligned with both front wheels off the ground. If you take measurements of it sitting on the ground. To do correctly you would have to jack up the front and remove all the shims...tighten everything up snug and put it on the ground. Measure the camber of both front wheels. You can use a string with a weight on the end ( plumb line ). When adjusting camber like this I try to measure on the same plain...or line...as the upper ball joint on the outside of the rim with a measuring tape. The plumb line is the marker for the measuring tape. The string is true verticle. The distance from the spot level with the ball joint and the string is how much shim you need. You could even use a protractor to dial in your camber by degree. No need to buy expensive equipment. For the toe straighten the steering wheel and run a string from the back of the rear tire. When the string just barely touches both sides of the face of the rear wheel gently run it to the front wheel barely touching the face of the front wheel. The string will reveal where your toe needs to be adjusted. Camber is done first then toe. If you can get the camber right and the toe close you can take it anywhere and get them to set the toe. I'm a mechanic and I'd never let a car leave my hands sitting like that... Whether I use a 40 grand alignment computer or a string it would be done better than that. Caster is how far forward or backwards the wheel sits in the wheel well. If they sit too far back it'll cause the car to pull into turns.... The farther forward the less it wants to pull itself into a curve. Caster too far back makes you have to manually turn the wheel out of a curve. The sweet spot will allow the car to correct itself out of a curve...setting the steering wheel back straight.

I like the sound of that method. That sounds very doable. My buddy even has a non drive on car lift that might come in handy.

horse sence · Oct 9, 2015

This one is from Speedway and i think it would be well worth having it

Braden65 · Oct 9, 2015

horse sence said:
This one is from Speedway and i think it would be well worth having it

I found it for 120 and bookmarked it. I paid 80 for the original alignment. If I wouldve known I wouldve invested in that to begin with. I looked at the reviews and it looks great

Braden65 · Oct 9, 2015

90sickfox said:
The hard part is that ( I believe your car should be aligned with both front wheels off the ground. If you take measurements of it sitting on the ground. To do correctly you would have to jack up the front and remove all the shims...tighten everything up snug and put it on the ground. Measure the camber of both front wheels. You can use a string with a weight on the end ( plumb line ). When adjusting camber like this I try to measure on the same plain...or line...as the upper ball joint on the outside of the rim with a measuring tape. The plumb line is the marker for the measuring tape. The string is true verticle. The distance from the spot level with the ball joint and the string is how much shim you need. You could even use a protractor to dial in your camber by degree. No need to buy expensive equipment. For the toe straighten the steering wheel and run a string from the back of the rear tire. When the string just barely touches both sides of the face of the rear wheel gently run it to the front wheel barely touching the face of the front wheel. The string will reveal where your toe needs to be adjusted. Camber is done first then toe. If you can get the camber right and the toe close you can take it anywhere and get them to set the toe. I'm a mechanic and I'd never let a car leave my hands sitting like that... Whether I use a 40 grand alignment computer or a string it would be done better than that. Caster is how far forward or backwards the wheel sits in the wheel well. If they sit too far back it'll cause the car to pull into turns.... The farther forward the less it wants to pull itself into a curve. Caster too far back makes you have to manually turn the wheel out of a curve. The sweet spot will allow the car to correct itself out of a curve...setting the steering wheel back straight.

and that's what threw me too. It's a very reputable shop. They always have classic cars in their parking lot. Wish you were a nearby mechanic.

horse sence · Oct 9, 2015

A friend has the one from Summit and he really likes it .I don't have a running car at the moment but soon as i do i think i am going to get one .

Braden65 · Oct 9, 2015

horse sence said:
A friend has the one from Summit and he really likes it .I don't have a running car at the moment but soon as i do i think i am going to get one .

They don't look too bad at all.

90sickfox · Oct 10, 2015

Looks like a good product. I'm a master mechanic in Maryland. I do a lot of alignments on lowered and custom cars. There is a science to it but its not that complicated. It takes time to get it spot on.

tos · Oct 12, 2015

Just a thought. Are you sure you did the Shelby drop correctly? Did you use a template? If I remember correctly your Shelby holes will be approx 1 1/2" lower and 1" forward of your original holes

horse sence · Oct 12, 2015

The holes should be drilled 1 inch down and 1/8th back

tos · Oct 12, 2015

horse sence said:
The holes should be drilled 1 inch down and 1/8th back

Oops, You are correct, my bad. I was trying to go off my memory which is scary sometimes. I've seen people make their own templates going strait down instead of offsetting so please make sure your hole positions are correct. this may be why he's having trouble adjusting. I also adjusted my own except I used a combination of digital levels and squares but for my toe in I have an old bar type alignment gage left to me by my father in-law

Shop Trying To Screw Me During An Alignment?

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