Fox Shopping For Heads

Glocker23 · Dec 3, 2016

So as stated above I am shopping for heads. I have a 302 with bolt on mods and cam. Was thinking I want a good set of heads. Was looking afr but didn't know what size is good 165 or 185. Was also checking out twisted wedge or maybe edelbrock. Not sure what would work with my setup or what could be recommended.

My car is a street car. Won't hit track. Trying to take care of it having 61000 original miles on the 1992. But looking for more power. One day would like to either do 331 or 347 stroker or supercharger...or both ... and would like to use same heads as ones I am looking for.

What would you guys do?

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knuckledragger77 · Dec 3, 2016

If you're going to add a blower get the larger combustion chamber. It will seem a little anemic before you put the power adder on but you will want the extra space when you do. Can't go wrong with afr buddy. Good luck.

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mikestang63 · Dec 3, 2016

what cam are you running? that determines what springs and heads. I run afr 165 heads and with a V3 making around 450rwhp, and made around 300rwhp N/A through an AOD. You can get away with 185's depending on what cam profile you run but will need to check PTV. Also, you will need to measure for pushrod length depending on what cam you run.. For chamber size, the smaller the chamber the higher the compression which you'll have to adjust for in your tune when you add a supercharger. Lastly, what ratio rocker do you run now and what do you want to run as that will also have an impact on PTV clearance- stock is 1.6 pedestal mount.

Glocker23 · Dec 4, 2016

mikestang63 said:
what cam are you running? that determines what springs and heads. I run afr 165 heads and with a V3 making around 450rwhp, and made around 300rwhp N/A through an AOD. You can get away with 185's depending on what cam profile you run but will need to check PTV. Also, you will need to measure for pushrod length depending on what cam you run.. For chamber size, the smaller the chamber the higher the compression which you'll have to adjust for in your tune when you add a supercharger. Lastly, what ratio rocker do you run now and what do you want to run as that will also have an impact on PTV clearance- stock is 1.6 pedestal mount.

Ooof. I only know cam is a f303. The rest I dont know. Could be stock or have been upgraded. Last owner didn't remember the details of internals if they were done.

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General karthief · Dec 4, 2016

61k and what? And the owner doesn't remember, post some pics, can't talk about huff'n and puff'n but plan for the future, some guys (any girls here? They are allowed, right?) hang'n here have some good advice, well except the guy with the ls engine,
Point is plan for future artificial air pressure now. That includes the brakes and suspension. All that go and no woh makes insurance companies cringe.
Oh, you can get good advice here if your car is reasonably cool , so post some pics, if your car ain't cool (like mine) find one on line.

A5literMan · Dec 4, 2016

Tfs 11r's get my vote if seriously planning more cubic inches,etc in future. If you're going to add a blower...just about any aluminum head will work. As far as the AFR 165 ve 185's goes...most people have PTV issues with the 185's 2.02 intake valves. The 11 r's design actually increases PTV clearance but you always have to check. They also have superior hardware.

Glocker23 · Dec 4, 2016

I read that about the 185s which is another reason was aiming to the 165. Just want to make sure I go the right way as I will be n/a for now and would like to supercharge maybe down the line. Will look at those TFs though.

As far as what karthief was saying car is already lowered with good suspension. I have full subframe connectors to be put on in the spring. Brakes could def be upgraded though lol.

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a91what · Dec 5, 2016

Trick Flow 170 get my vote. great runner size for NA HP and will flow plenty enough for the blower.

Noobz347 · Dec 5, 2016

Glocker23 said:
What would you guys do?

Opinion Poll

Moved to over Talk Secion

General karthief · Dec 5, 2016

My opinion?
More beer. And I don't even drink beer!

A5literMan · Dec 5, 2016

A 165-170cc runner is fine for a street car/mild blower on a 302. The AFR and TFS heads are the best Bolt on head. But they are limited. At least the tfs head has room to grow and bigger valves to start with. If adding a blower it doesn't really matter...you'll be capable of splitting the block before running out of "head". If op just wants 300 or so n/a or 450 with the blower...I vote TFS 170's...if going stroker and/or more power potential...11 r's.

Jersey Joe · Dec 5, 2016

I went with TFS 170''s but it was the whole top end kit. I don't have a flow bench and I don't scream down a quarter mile so I can't give you performance comparisons. what I can tell you is they look great, they assembled with no problems and my ass dyno says they work pretty good.

Glocker23 · Dec 5, 2016

A5literMan said:
A 165-170cc runner is fine for a street car/mild blower on a 302. The AFR and TFS heads are the best Bolt on head. But they are limited. At least the tfs head has room to grow and bigger valves to start with. If adding a blower it doesn't really matter...you'll be capable of splitting the block before running out of "head". If op just wants 300 or so n/a or 450 with the blower...I vote TFS 170's...if going stroker and/or more power potential...11 r's.

Would the 11rs be good with a blower one day too. I am torn for future after the heads to do a blower or go 331 stroker. Do the 11rs have any bolt on issues like afr 185s?

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A5literMan · Dec 5, 2016

Glocker23 said:
Would the 11rs be good with a blower one day too. I am torn for future after the heads to do a blower or go 331 stroker. Do the 11rs have any bolt on issues like afr 185s?

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These were mine. No bolton issues. You may want a custom cam. I had the 205's with a custom cam designed for stock shortblock. There are a few guys on corral.net running the 195's on stock shortblocks with mostly custom cams but some have used catalog grinds. Most are making 20-50hp more than the typical tfs kit. Now these are more deticated builds to n/a power but streetable. It's not the cheapest route or absolutely necessary for what your ultimate goals are or will be. If going stroker-n/a build you will need more breathing ability out of the head. That's why I recommend these.

If blower...not so much because you are forcing more air into the engine. The 11r's are a one stop shopping IMO. Capable of supporting a sedate stock shortblock build(overkill but they work) up to about 1000hp in a big inch blower motor. They were running around 2k the last time I looked.

If you're going to make a 300rwhp semi daily driver...go with the 170cc head. If adding a blower and wanting around 450rwhp...either head is a good choice. If wanting a n/a motor in the 350+rwhp or plan on a aftermarket block build...go 11r's

A5literMan · Dec 5, 2016

You will have to check PTV clearance with any cam! And real issues with cam's with more than around 220* dur @.050-.515 lift unless timing events are correct you'll have contact. My custom was 223/227-.525. Guy I sold it to reported he made 338rwhp@5800rpms and 335rwtq@5000rpms but I never saw a real dyno sheet from him. And he used the 195 11 r's.

Gearbanger 101 · Dec 5, 2016

knuckledragger77 said:
If you're going to add a blower get the larger combustion chamber. It will seem a little anemic before you put the power adder on but you will want the extra space when you do.

I wouldn't limit myself with a large combustion chamber unless I was either A) too cheap to run premium fuel all of the time, or B) running a LOT of boost. I'm pushing 14psi through a 10:1 compression ratio, on pump gas, just fine.

Glocker23 · Dec 6, 2016

No charger as of yet. I do run a f303 cam. And do run 93 all the time

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knuckledragger77 · Dec 6, 2016

Good advice all around, looks like someone had some tough decisions to make.

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Glocker23 · Dec 6, 2016

knuckledragger77 said:
Good advice all around, looks like someone had some tough decisions to make.

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Really excited at the info received on this post. Will continue to research of course but def a great track. Prior to this post I was afr only focused. Now TFs are on the table for sure

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a91what · Dec 6, 2016

I agree the low compression for boost theory is defunct.
When running boost on a high compression build 10:1-11:1 just keep the timing in check and run premium.
I could write a few pages on tuning a setup like the one I just described, but the big thing to remember is start with MBT timing and pull 1* per psi and use it as a starting point.

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