Solid frame for 1996 Mustang

[Jozai]

I am looking at making a street rod out of my 1966 Mustang and was thinking of putting a solid frame under it. What would be a good donor car for the frame?

 

[jamison42166]

Bolt In Full Frames for Early Muscle Cars

 

[Rusty67]

Why not just put a cage in the rear and tie some sub frame connectors into the cage ? The car will be nice and tight after that.

 

[wicked93gs]

that article was neat, but they dont mention 64-66 mustangs anyway, personally I would do a cage and sub-frames, and whatever other bracing I think would help(like a trunk divider if you have a coupe) an updated version of the export brace and monte carlo bar....maybe a rear(in trunk) version of a monte-carlo bar, in other words, every bit of chasis stiffening that might help...I'm willing to bet that would still be lighter than a full frame

 

[zookeeper]

+1 on that. I just have this vision of one more Mustang ruined by trying to mount it on an S-10 frame. If you have to ask strangers on an online forum, then you do not have the engineering or fabrication skills to pull it off. Add wheels and tires, have a local shop add subframe connectors and leave it alone.

 

[BarnStang]

THe article had a link to a vendor. They do ofer a bolt in frame for the 66...listed in the text below the picture...
http://www.gmachinechassis.com/

 

[Jozai]

Thanks for the tips. Zookeeper is probably correct that I don't have the skills to pull it off but I thought the idea of a forum was to ask strangers for advice to help you decide how or even if to proceed. Plus by taking advantage of the advice of forum strangers may lead me to a place to gain the necessary skills. Just my thoughts on the advantages of Forums.

If both of the 66's weren't just bodies I probably would add tires then just drive them. Right now the only way I can move them is to drag them around with my tractor. Not much fun to drive this way.

 

[zookeeper]

Sorry if I sounded harsh, but things like chassis swaps, or full-on chassis builds are not a good feet-wetting project. Building cars is a lot like flying airplanes, it's done one-step at a time. Nobody jumps in an F-22 on day one, right? But over time and by takig baby steps towards the goal, it is done everyday. Same with car building. Start small, step one, get a running car. Step two bolt on simple stuff, wheels and tires, then maybe an intake, maybe swap rear axle gears, and all the while you're learning, and if you make a mistake, it's not fatal to the car or yourself. I've been building and modifying cars for over 30 years, and THE single biggest killer of cars is over-ambitious people. It's always the same start, and it usually ends with a nice car turned into a parts car (or worse) and an owner who's sick of cars and broke due to the huge amount of money flushed down the drain on the last doomed project. So if I sound discourgaing, please understand I'm not trying to be, I just want to make it very clear that this is not an area to learn the hard way on, only because it sounds like you'd like to swap the body and subframe onto an existing passenger car rolling chassis. S-10 chassis were mentioned only because of their popularity with frame-swappers these days. Any frame swap (aside from those high-dollar custom units) wouldn't even come close to matching, and would likely be a waste of time and money, and likely destroy two usuable cars. If you ahve the money, one of the custom chassis certainly looks great, and seem to be well thought out. But the simplest way to go would be to simply replace the stock Mustang parts that are missing with the right Mustang parts that were there at one time or another. They are extremely cheap, and extremely plentiful and will result in the car being finished much quicker. Again, I hope I didn't offend you or make your first trip to Stangnet a miserable expereince. It's a great place to learn from with lots of great people with tons of expereince. Nearly all of us have learned the hard way and would like very much to keep another Mustang fan from doing the same.

 

[Jozai]

Zookeeper. Thanks for the honest answer. At first I thought you did sound kind of harsh but your reply certainly showed me that you aren't. And no you didn't scare me away from Stangnet nor make my experience unpleasant. This kind of discussion is great. We are not going to learn much if we just say what we think someone wants to hear. I have been playing with enough cars from my youth as a gearhead to now having a couple of project cars to handle the basic stuff. What I have no experience with is the fabricating part. Any advice on that would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[zookeeper]

If I could offer any advice on fabricating, it would be to think the whole part or system of parts through before you start, and don't be afraid to do it over if it's not right. I'm a machinist, and through trial and error, I've learned to think the entire part through. It's the same with any fabrication job on your car. A great place to learn fabrication methods and skills is lots of the TV shows you find on today. My favorites are the "PowerBlock" bunch of shows on Spike TV these days. All of these shows have great step-by-step instruction and show how just about anything you could imagine is done. Aside from that, there are lots of great videos available today showing everything from chassis fabrication and setup, to interior, to metalwork and paint. Anytime I don't know how to do something, I do a bit of searching online, see if I can find a video of it, and spend $30 or $40 and get a video of whatever it is. I have other responsibilities, and can't afford to pay people to work on my car, so I have to learn to do it myself. Besides, it's more fun and a great way to end up with a nicer car than you could afford to buy. A good example is this: one of my buddies has a neat '66 coupe and wanted to get a crate motor and detail the engine bay while he was at it. He ordered the same motor I have, then once the motor was out, he got cold feet about painting the engine bay, and hauled it all down to a local pro-shop to have the engine bay painted satin black. They charged him $3,200 to paint the engine bay and all the stuff (master cylinder, steering column, new brake lines). I about crapped when I heard that. The most important part, the motor only cost him $2700 and he paid $3,200 for a little paint? By doing it myself, I spent about $20 on primer, another $20 on paint and another $20 on clear and I suppose $3 on masking paper and tape, and mines certainly more durable than his, since once you get oil or anything else on satin or mat finishes, it's there for good. For the extra $3140 he spent, he could have bought a boatload of stuff and ended up with a nicer car. Another freind has a '67 coupe he has over $42,000 into that I know of. How could anyone spend this much on a stock-looking coupe? By failing to plan, period. Before you spend one dime on a car, you need to sit down with a pencil and paper and figure out how much you have to spend, and where it's all going to go. If you have (for example) $20,000 to spend over a period of 3 years, it sounds like a lot of money, but if you don't do the vast majority of the work yourself, I doubt it could be done, from the ground up, for that amount . Sounds ridiculous, but it's true. My freind with the '67 spent $17K at the paint shop, and while it looks outstanding, he's now afraid to drive it because he's afraid that if the paint got damaged, he'd never get it matched again. How much fun is hauling a car in a trailer, even to local shows? Not only that, but he failed to lay his car out on paper and see what he really wanted the car to be when it was finished, so he simply opened the catalog and the checkbook and went to town. He bought a roll bar for it, then decided it didn't fit right, so he bought another one. Neither of them were cheap and neither of them went in the finished car. He has three sets of wheels and tires, because everytime he bought one set, he found something else he liked. And so it went, until the car was way over budget and not useable for what he actually wanted. It's an awesome looking car, with perfect paint, but it's still a '67 coupe, and he could have done better for his money.
My advice on car planning is to figure a budget out right off the bat. Then lay out what you want the car to do. If you want it to run 10's in the quarter, your goals and budget will be a bit different from a car you want to load the kids and wife in and take a 2 hr drive to a local show. Be realistic as well. Separate your car list into WANTS and NEEDS. Look how simple these cars are, and before you change anything, ask if it's what you WANT to do, or what you NEED to do. Twin turbos and NASCAR quick-change rear ends are WANTS. Good brakes and reliable engines are NEEDS. Most importantly never forget it's supposed to be fun. Spending your whole savings and working out of a carport is less fun by the minute so be realistic with every choice and you WILL end up with a car you can both afford and be proud of.

 

[Jozai]

Great advice! Like you, I also have plenty of other responsibilities and spending a boatload of money on a hobby isn't at the top of the list. Besides, I think doing the work yourself, although it may not look like something Chip Foose would produce, results in something that is yours and something you can be proud of. Not sure how opening the checkbook and "buying" a restoration can produce that same feeling.

One more question and I will leave you alone, for a while anyway. Since this is a hobby which MIG welder would you recommend. I know a Miller is the way to go but they are very pricey. What about the Lincoln welders? Should I go with a 110 or 220 power source? I have a very nice oxy/acetylene set-up but want to get a MIG for body type repairs.

 

[Rusty67]

I asked my buddie who is a welder that same question. He said don't bother with the Lincoln if you ever want to weld something serious. He says the Miller is the only way to fly if you will be welding anything thick. For cars, you could provably get away with a decent Lincoln.

 

[zookeeper]

Hey, I'm thrilled to help, so ANY time you have a question PLEASE feel free to ask. As far as welders, I use a 220v welder from Daytona Mig. It was inexpensive and works great. Choose a welder based on parts availablity. If you can afford it, I suppose a 220 welder would be the best choice, but some of the 110v welders are extremely good and a bargain for the money. I have never used anything bigger than .023" wire and you don't need 22v for that. Although I prefer the welders that use gas, I once used a non-gas 110v Lincoln welder in another shop with flux-core wire and was amazed at how well it worked. There's nothing on a stock Mustang than requires large wire or more amps, since even the subframes are pretty thin. You may have to make another pass or two, but in reality, with a bit of practice, you can do nice, safe work with a 110 welder, just don't expect to be making any NHRA-legal roll cages with it. Coupled with your oxy/acetelyne set, you'll be fine. Our shop has a few different welders, but the one I use the most is an antiquated Lincoln. It may not have all the bells and whistles of our newer Miller, but it makes great welds and is idiot-proof, which means even I can use it.
You and I think a lot alike when it comes to car stuff. For the same money, I could have bought a decent used Corvette or something. But by doing it a payday at a time, and learning as I go ( I never painted a whole car before) I ended up with something I'm proud of and that I built myself, in my garage. Now if it would just quit raining long enough to drive it...

 

[zookeeper]

I asked my buddie who is a welder that same question. He said don't bother with the Lincoln if you ever want to weld something serious. He says the Miller is the only way to fly if you will be welding anything thick. For cars, you could provably get away with a decent Lincoln.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Lincoln and Miller make a full range of welders designed to weld anything from a a garden gate to a bridge and everything in between. Comparing a top-of-the-line welder from one company to an entry-level welder from another is hardly fair.

 

[BarnStang]

Hobart is a value line made by Miller. Our 220v Hobart shop welder is great. I figured out what the biggest 110v model was they built and got it from Carquest auto parts. It was the best deal! FOr $550 I got a Handler 140, cart, regulater, hood, Hobart backpack with welding gloves, chipping hammer, couple other little things I can't remember. I also converted the tip to a Bernard tip at home and at work. Works soooo much better. Simple to use too. I have 200 at home, but wanted to be able to throw in in the truck if I needed to take it anywhere and 220v would have possibly made that difficult. See as how I have never taken it anywhere, I probably should have got a 220v model... Good luck!

 

[wicked93gs]

220v all the way, in all honesty my experience with 110v mig welders shows me that they arent much good for anything more than sheet metal, also as far as brand goes... miller...I bought a cheaper mig welder and have been kicking myself for it ever since....I tried to use it to install my Mustang II setup...ended up buying an Arc welder for that instead....the 110v mig welder works tolerably well for sheet metal, nothing else. a Miller 110v welder may work better

 

[Rusty67]

You're comparing apples to oranges. Lincoln and Miller make a full range of welders designed to weld anything from a a garden gate to a bridge and everything in between. Comparing a top-of-the-line welder from one company to an entry-level welder from another is hardly fair.

My buddy told me to never buy anything Lincoln. He has used a million different welders and his verdict is Miller or don't bother. I don't have any personal experience welding anything so I can't comment on this first hand.

 

[Jozai]

Thanks for all of the feedback. One thing I read about choosing welders is to also talk to your local supplier, not Lowe's or Home Depot, but a welding supplier. They typically have lots of resources/experience and can direct you to a welder that fits your needs. Also developing a relationship with them pays dividends as you have questions and issues later on.

Zookeeper: Thanks for all of the thought you put into this and I will "pester" you for more advice.