Fox Some Advice On My 88 Gt

Sarge261 · Dec 30, 2013

Hey there folks,

I don't often post here, I do a lot of reading and the information has been really helpful. So with that being said Im a little confused and I have read a ton of stuff on here and I think I may have confused myself even more.

So here goes the question:

Im in the middle of fixing some pesky to me oil leaks on the car and Im pretty far into it. Im resealing the intake, valve cover gaskets, and front cover. So at this point Im thinking of either pulling the engine and resealing the whole thing, or just finishing where Im at and wait unitl I need a clutch to do the pan and rear main seal.

So the question is I wanted to upgrade to a different cam, and possibly install some new heads. I was thinking of a Bcam and the Ford Racing GT 40 heads in the 64cc combustion chamber. My goal with this car is to eventually swap to a MAF system, and just enjoy driving it. The car is a clean 1 owner 54k mile car. I have been the only person to work on it for the last 15 or so years as I knew the PO.

So Im looking for a little advice and help. Am I going in the right direction or should I just reseal it and leave it the way it is.

Thanks,

Sarge

Best Wishes for a Happy Healthy 2014 to All Of You Here!!!!

mikestang63 · Dec 30, 2013

ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY B CAM!!!!

My advice, Fix all the leaks before you start modding it. Adding HP will only magnify the weak spots. There are much much better choices than a 25 year old hammer and chisel technology of alphabet cams. When you are ready, have someone like Ed Curtis or Buddy Rawls make you a cam for an extra $100, and then you can determine what springs to get and by then you could save up for a good set of TFS or AFR heads. You don't need to swap to MAF with a H/C/I change.

racerraj · Dec 30, 2013

Speed Density doesn't like many cams. Would probably be better to upgrade to Mass Air before starting with Cams. I understand wanting to knock the cam out while resealing the motor, but you will likely just give yourself s new set of headaches. And as Mike said a custom cam is worth the extra money. If you are bent on a cam now, talk to the guys he mentioned and let them know you are speed density.

jrichker · Dec 30, 2013

The #1 principle of auto mechanics has been well stated by the other posts: fix what's broken now BEFORE adding new elements to the current mess. It will save you countless hours of frustration and trouble.

Sarge261 · Dec 31, 2013

Thanks for the advice guys,

I will look into a custom cam, and yes I would love to do the cam while the engine is torn down. As far as auto mechanics principles I have been around the block for a while. I own/operate my own repair shop and I am a ASE Master Tech as well as a GM world class Tech. I don't know a lot about the 5.0 and whats good and bad for it as far as modding. My thought was while I had it torn down if there is something better I could do to it, like cam shaft I would.

I came from the Grand National world as my "toy" so this fox stuff is all new to me, just trying to get some ideas.

Like I said the car only has 54k on it and the inside of the engine is spotless, so I don't think I will have to worry about weak spots. And its not broken I just want to fix the leaks before the car is painted.

Are the OEM heads good enough to support a mild custom cam? or should I just do heads now?

Thanks and Sorry for my 5.0 ignorance Im still trying learn my car.

Sarge

mikestang63 · Dec 31, 2013

Sarge261 said:
Thanks for the advice guys,

I will look into a custom cam, and yes I would love to do the cam while the engine is torn down. As far as auto mechanics principles I have been around the block for a while. I own/operate my own repair shop and I am a ASE Master Tech as well as a GM world class Tech. I don't know a lot about the 5.0 and whats good and bad for it as far as modding. My thought was while I had it torn down if there is something better I could do to it, like cam shaft I would.

I came from the Grand National world as my "toy" so this fox stuff is all new to me, just trying to get some ideas.

Like I said the car only has 54k on it and the inside of the engine is spotless, so I don't think I will have to worry about weak spots. And its not broken I just want to fix the leaks before the car is painted.

Are the OEM heads good enough to support a mild custom cam? or should I just do heads now?

Thanks and Sorry for my 5.0 ignorance Im still trying learn my car.

Sarge

Sarge, don't be offended. We have no way of knowing someone's expertise behind a keyboard. Glad to see you can handle anything that comes your way. Couple of suggestions.

Get the rear main seal from Felpro, and also get the teflon sleeve that rides on the crank. It will guarantee a leak free rear main seal. These engines are notorious for leaking even with a new seal. Heres a good video on what I am referring to.

If you have the motor out of the car, throw a new oil pump witha a hardened shaft in it as cheap insuramce. For the pan gasket, use the Felpro 1 piece rubber ones. Same for the VC gaskets. Another point to look for coolant/oil leaks is the timing cover- in the corners. If you plan on removing the smog stuff, it is much easier to remove the smog tubes and the crossover tubes on the back of the motor with it out of the car. Plug the two holes with a 5/8" plug that you can get from Summit.

I wouldn't bother with any cam with stock heads- just throwing money away as you would need to change the springs and stock E7's simply are not worth investing money into. I'd do the H/C/I now with the motor out. So much easier. You have two routes on that depending on your budget. Either get the top end off a 93-96 Explorer- heads, intake, 65MM throttle body- and you will have a Gt40 top end. Get a 70MM Mass air meter from a 94-95 Mustang Gt that will replaces your stock 58mm. Change the springs in the heads to match your new cam, get the heads cleaned up and straight. Get a cam from Ed or Buddy. Youll have a nice, reliable, 280-300rwhp setup. Other option is to buy the TFS top end kit for $2500. It comes with pretty much everything needed and is a proven 290-320rwhp. Swap out the TFS1 cam with a custom one and you can get 330rwhp.

madspeed · Dec 31, 2013

well said Mike

racerraj · Dec 31, 2013

I'm running the GT40P (Explorer) heads on my 88. A decent low budget head, but they are not premium high flow heads. In the GM world, it would be like throwing Vortec heads on an older 350.

madspeed · Dec 31, 2013

take that chebby chit and git

Sarge261 · Jan 1, 2014

Thanks for the solid advice Mike. Im not offended in any way, I guess I should have given a little of my background info first. Like I said Im eager to learn and please forgive my ignorance.

All the smog stuff was removed by the PO and a set of BBK shortys were installed with an X pipe and I assume BBK mufflers also. I wasn't planning on removing the engine but the more I look at it the more I say to myself Im not that far away. However, my thought was to put a new Kmember in it at some point and reseal the oil pan then.

Now Im not sure which way to go. What is the TFS top end kit... Im assuming its the trick flow kit?

Thanks Again,

Sarge

mikestang63 · Jan 1, 2014

http://www.summitracing.com/search/...isted-wedge-top-end-engine-kits-for-ford-5-0l

Sarge261 · Jan 1, 2014

Thanks again Mike. I will look into everything. If I need t scrape pennies to get this done I will. If I have to wait to get it all I will an just reseal for now.

Sarge

Sarge261 · Jan 1, 2014

Also what should I look for for injectors. I already upgraded the fuel pump so I may as well do injectors while its torn down.

Sarge

mikestang63 · Jan 1, 2014

Until you do the head swap, leave the stock ones in. Injectors don't make HP, they support them. If you do the TFS or other head swap, once you get past 300 hp then you'll need to swap to larger injectors and a matching MAF. I would step up to 30's and a Pro M Mass Air.

88LX5.Oh · Jan 1, 2014

mikestang63 said:
You don't need to swap to MAF with a H/C/I change.

Tell that to all the people who put B cams in their SD cars and then had to convert to MAF. Lol
B cams LSA is 112 and SD really likes 114.
Also, read the "Notes" section in Summits description.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6250-b303/overview/

jrichker · Jan 1, 2014

Some more clues...

Fuel injector sizing & injector photos

Revised 11-Dec-2011 to add larger injector sizes to injector table

Injector HP ratings: divide flow rating by.5 and multiply the result by the number of injectors. This uses a 100% duty cycle. These ratings are for naturally aspirated engines at the flywheel.

Example:
19/.5 = 38, 38 x 8 = 304 HP
24/.5 = 48, 48 x 8 = 384 HP
30/.5 = 60, 60 x 8 = 480 HP
36/.5 = 72, 72 x 8 = 576 HP
42/.5 = 84, 84 x 8 = 672 HP

The preferred duty cycle is about 85% maximum, so for a safety factor multiply the final figure times .85.

19/.5 = 38, 38 x 8 = 304 HP x .85 = 258 HP
24/.5 = 48, 48 x 8 = 384 HP x .85 = 326 HP
30/.5 = 60, 60 x 8 = 480 HP x .85 = 408 HP
36/.5 = 72, 72 x 8 = 576 HP x .85 = 490 HP
42/.5 = 84, 84 x 8 = 672 HP x .85 = 571 HP

Remember that the above ratings are at 39 PSI. Increasing the pressure will effectively increase the flow rating. Example: a 19 lb injector will flow 24 lbs at 63 PSI, and a 24 lb injector will flow 30 lbs at 63 PSI.

See http://users.erols.com/srweiss/#jcalc to get the calculators used in these examples.

Here's the duty cycle explanation. Duty cycle is how much of the time the intake is open the injectors are turned on. The 85% figure means that for 85% of the time the intake valve is open, the injectors are spraying. The idea is that you want some percentage of the duty cycle left over so that you have some room to grow the process.

If you are at 100% and you need more fuel, all you can do is turn up the fuel pressure. That means the whole fuel curve from idle to WOT is affected. Maybe you are already too rich at idle, and turning up the fuel pressure makes it worse. If you had some injector duty cycle left to play with, a custom tune could use that where it is needed. That would not over richen the whole range from idle to WOT.

If you did turn up the fuel pressure, you might be able to change the injector duty cycle to get the air/fuel mixture ratio you want since the injectors will have extra fuel delivery capability.

With larger than stock injectors or higher that stock fuel pressure, you will need an aftermarket MAF that matches the injector size. The MAF “lies” to the computer to get a fuel delivery schedule that meets the engine’s needs and isn’t too rich or too lean. The best strategy is an aftermarket MAF and a custom tune to insure the best air/fuel ratio over all the RPM range.

Don't forget to increase the fuel pump size when you increase injector size or significantly increase the fuel pressure

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

mikestang63 · Jan 1, 2014

88LX5.Oh said:
Tell that to all the people who put B cams in their SD cars and then had to convert to MAF. Lol
B cams LSA is 112 and SD really likes 114.
Also, read the "Notes" section in Summits description.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6250-b303/overview/

Who the hell uses a B cam? Yep, there are many SD friendly cams. I used them back in the day,, think one was a crane 2031?

88LX5.Oh · Jan 1, 2014

mikestang63 said:
Who the hell uses a B cam?

Tons of people do lol
And yeah there are cams out there that are SD friendly, but they're so close to stock you may as well put your money into 1.7 roller rockers with stock cam and call it good.

mikestang63 said:
You don't need to swap to MAF with a H/C/I change.

And this statement made it seem like you could run any HCI combo you want and not have to convert to MAF. Which is true, you can get it tuned, but I was just simply proving that there are cams that are not friendly with the SD system. I would know, I tried and tried and tried to get my car to run right with SD

mikestang63 · Jan 1, 2014

88LX5.Oh said:
Tons of people do lol
And yeah there are cams out there that are SD friendly, but they're so close to stock you may as well put your money into 1.7 roller rockers with stock cam and call it good.

And this statement made it seem like you could run any HCI combo you want and not have to convert to MAF. Which is true, you can get it tuned, but I was just simply proving that there are cams that are not friendly with the SD system. I would know, I tried and tried and tried to get my car to run right with SD

Of course there are cams that are not SD friendly. I never said any cam would work. I said you don't need to swap to MAF for an H/C/I swap and you don't. Crower, Crane, and Comp cams all make SD cams. If you want to parse my sentence apart because I forgot that part, more power to you. Hell, I even had an A trim with a SD setup. Chris Johnson burned a chip for me.

Sarge261 · Jan 7, 2014

Well after much deliberation, and by the time I add up all the other little things I'm going to need to do the stuff I want, I decided that I am just going to reseal the engine, put on a nice set of valve covers, have the upper intake re-powder coated and drive the car. If I am going to do all that work to the engine, my thought is to find a nice short block and do a 347 stroker and keep the original engine original so if I ever sell the car it can go with it.

Thanks for all the help and I hope no one feels as though they wasted there time, I did learn a ton of stuff here. I may work on a good MAF conversion in the mean time, something that will support my future plans.

Sarge

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