Steeda Bumpsteer not enough??

88-378 · Feb 15, 2010

OK, i have a MM Bilstein coilover kit with the steeda bumpsteer kit as well as their cc plates. It still seems like it is at an excessive angle.

However, the car has not been aligned yet. Should i wait until I get it aligned and see what they say?

I have VERY little adjustment left. Offset rack bushings are not an option due to the harsh angle it puts the steering shaft at.

Shaolin Crane · Feb 15, 2010

when the car is lowered to a certain extent its necessary to have a bolt through kit, not a stud kit

88-378 · Feb 16, 2010

Shaolin Crane said:
when the car is lowered to a certain extent its necessary to have a bolt through kit, not a stud kit

Huh?

stang&2Birds · Feb 16, 2010

88-378 said:
Huh?

Granted MM has one of the WORLDS MOST ****ED UP WEBSITES, but they are a GREAT company with GREAT products!

MM Bumpsteer Kits : Maximum Motorsports Performance Mustang Suspension Store, Buy Now!

MM Bumpsteer Kits You will need one of these kits to correct and adjust the bumpsteer on your Mustang, after making changes to control arm position or geometry, or if significantly increasing caster.

Bumpsteer is a term for the situation where the front toe changes as the suspension moves up and down. If the toe changes more than a very small amount it will cause the car to change direction, making the car unstable and unpredictable. MM offers two types of Adjustable Tie-Rod Ends. The tapered stud type can be used to make moderate changes to the geometry. It is best suited for use with a stock Mustang K-member, and does not require any modification to the spindle. The bolt-through spindle type has a much wider range of adjustment. It is required for most situations when installing a MM K-Member and requires drilling out the tapered hole in the spindle to accept a 5/8" bolt.

See:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_13&products_id=448

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_13&products_id=569

2000xp8 · Feb 16, 2010

Make sure it's not the AJE k member causing it.
Mine was really screwed up, the lower crossmember was up too high. Which also causes the control arm connections to be too high. So by drawing the inner control arms bushings upward, it puts the arm at an extreme angle.

88-378 · Feb 16, 2010

I have the Stud kit now. So basically, all i need is bolts to convert it to the bolt thru?????

stang&2Birds · Feb 17, 2010

88-378 said:
I have the Stud kit now. So basically, all i need is bolts to convert it to the bolt thru?????

I don't know if Steeda offers a bolt-through kit. And, the MM bolt-through kit may not work with other bumpsteer kits.

IMHO, Steeda still makes good stuff. So, if Steeda does offer a bolt-through kit, it's likely a good setup. But, like FRPP, Steeda may second source some low volume stuff. So, *I* make no claims as to how good any specific Steeda part is.

For now (02/2010), I am willing to put my rep on the line when I suggest MM.

Note, as I said before, I am no longer a huge FRPP leg humper because of the quality of some of their products.

stang&2Birds · Feb 17, 2010

Hmm, back to the orig question.

What do you mean by "seems like it is at an excessive angle"??
Do you mean the tie-rod angle with the ground when the car is sitting on flat level ground??

Also, have you read:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/content/install/pdf/steering/MMTR-1-3-5-6r3.pdf
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/content/install/pdf/steering/MMTR-2-4-7r2.pdf

Also, if you have sn95 spindles on a Fox, that means that you need longer (and very strong) adjustment sleeves.

For that, you need:
Adjustable Tie Rod End Kit, 1979-93, SN95 arms, bolt-through MMTR-6 $139.00
MM Adjustable Tie Rod End Kit, 1979-93, with SN95 control arms and a FOX steering rack, bolt-through style spindle. This kit has longer sleeves to accommodate the longer arm length if increasing the track width by using...

That's what I have.

88-378 · Feb 17, 2010

I emailed MM to see if their bolt thru would work with Steeda's.

They look identical! I am going to read that article to get a better understanding. thanks for the info!!!

88-378 · Feb 17, 2010

stang&2Birds said:
Hmm, back to the orig question.

What do you mean by "seems like it is at an excessive angle"??
Do you mean the tie-rod angle with the ground when the car is sitting on flat level ground?? Yes

Also, have you read:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/content/install/pdf/steering/MMTR-1-3-5-6r3.pdf
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/content/install/pdf/steering/MMTR-2-4-7r2.pdf

PS, I have stock spindles..

I read the article, but it does not say anything about the actual angle of the tie rod. I am thinking that if the car is aligned properly, and the angle of the tie rod is relatively flat, than bumpsteer will not be an issue.

stang&2Birds · Feb 18, 2010

How much lower are you setting the front. With the correct diameter tires, the front fender is ~27" +/- 1/4" (or so).

As long as the car isn't lowered more than ~3/4", then you can "eye ball" the bumpsteer so that on flat level ground, setting the tire rod as MM says in their instructions gets you pretty damn close!

As you go past ~1" drop, bumpsteer will be always an issue (unless you have ~$5-$10K+ in suspension mods). However, again, setting the tie rod set as MM says is "pretty good". It'll be better than if you left it alone. However, because of the Fox suspension, tolerances, different choices in stuff, there's more variability in the spacers needed for the least bumpsteer effect. And, as I understand, there's also less of an absolute clear choice between 'what the best setting is".

In reality, very few shops know how to measure bumpsteer, will measure bumpsteer, or will set bumpsteer. And, for those of use that do not have a nice flat level perfect concrete surface to measure/set our bumpsteer on (use the MM tools!), then just setting the tie rods as MM suggests for "eye balling it" is "pretty good".

For AutoX handling, to get the best bumpsteer setting, then I'd suggest finding a shop, or begging to use a friend's garage for a few hours (offer to change their oil, and pay for the oil and filter of their choice ), or try to find a rent-a-bay, etc.

stang&2Birds · Feb 18, 2010

88-378 said:
I read the article, but it does not say anything about the actual angle of the tie rod. I am thinking that if the car is aligned properly, and the angle of the tie rod is relatively flat, than bumpsteer will not be an issue.

Hmm,
All I could find is:
19. As a starting point, slide one of the supplied .48”
bumpsteer spacers onto the tapered bumpsteer
stud. Next slide on the rod end, followed by one .24”,
one .12”, two .06”, one .03” and one .015” spacers.
Use the supplied 5/8” thin nylock nut and torque the
assembly to 65 ft-lb. Use a back-up wrench on the
flats of the tapered bumpsteer stud to ensure that it
does not spin.

Let me see if I can do a search to find the "general rule of thumb".
As I remember, a good starting point is to have the tie-rod parallel to the ground. I thought that MM had that as a suggestion in their instructions for people that don't have a bumpsteer gauge.

But, it could have been something that people found out from experience and doing Auto-X.

stang&2Birds · Feb 18, 2010

Here's some good info on bumpsteer:
Google Search: "minimize bumpsteer is a complicated problem to solve"
The first result should be the correct link.

Look at post #7 in that thread. That's the best explanation of doing a quick eyeball setting for bumpsteer.

Another very simple (but less accurate) eyeball method is to have the car on a flat level surface, and have the tie-rod parallel to the ground.

Hope that helps.
Sorry for thinking that MM had (?or still had?) eyeball setting for bumpsteer in their instructions!

Good Luck!

stang&2Birds · Feb 18, 2010

dup post

capri debris · Feb 18, 2010

Tie rod should be parallel to the control arm NOT the ground. Whatever angle the control arm is, the tie rod should be the same.

88-378 · Feb 18, 2010

How much lower are you setting the front. With the correct diameter tires, the front fender is ~27" +/- 1/4" (or so).

Wow! Mine is at 25.5. I'll adjust it up and 1" and see what that does.

Tie rod should be parallel to the control arm NOT the ground. Whatever angle the control arm is, the tie rod should be the same.

If this is the case, than i am not that far off.

thanks for the help fellas. I am starting from scratch with this as i have rebuilt the whole car!

Steeda Bumpsteer not enough??

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