Still milky oil problem

[93GTosu]

sorry for the swarm of threads i've been making lately...i'm usually just a lurker until i have a problem.

ok here's the deal...i'm putting P heads/intake, new waterpump, and FMS P headers on my 93. First time i got it assembled it ran fine until the temp shot way up (250s) and there was coolant in the oil.

I thought maybe i had messed the intake or head gaskets and i was in no hurry to get the car back to school so i tore it all back down to change those. The gaskets were still in one piece but a little rough (i'd think this would be normal huh?).

Anyways, I put it all back together making sure i did everything EXACTLY as instructions tell me following torque patterns etc. I start it up and let it heat up for 5-10 minutes and it runs great. There was just a little underhood smoke on startup but i think that was a header-Xpipe leak (which i fixed). It gets to 150-160 and i shut it off, pull the plugs out of the oil pan and BAM there's coolant already-the oil is milky.

Where the hell could coolant be getting in from?! I took the waterpump off but left the timing cover on during the swap...could i have loosened the timing cover enough for coolant to get in somehow? I really dont know where/how else to look and i'm getting pretty frustrated. I have to keep coming home from school to work on the car and i just want it running!!!!


thanks a TON guys, its always nice to get a fresh set of eyes looking at a problem :SNSign:



also, my other thread about the coolant/EGR was because a buddy thought maybe coolant was coming through the TB/EGR. But since there's no coolant to the EGR now thats obviously not it.

 

[93GTosu]

some more specifics:
-torqued heads to 75 and 85
-torqued lower intake to 22ft/lbs, it took 5 maybe 6 go-rounds to get em all the same
-thread sealer on lower head bolts, oil on the uppers
-rtv where the lower intake gasket meets the heads
-studs used to line up the lower and drop it down straight

really, what would cause coolant to leak so fast??

 

[NKau]

Dumb question, but I'm guessing you did not disassemble the entire motor after swapping head gaskets again? Chance there may have been some moisture left in the engine after you changed the oil the first time?

 

[jtfairlane]

I haven't pulled the water pump off my 5.0 yet, but on my 289 a few of the bolts that retain the water pump do double duty and keep the timing chain cover tight. If you removed some during the water pump install, and the gasket behind the timing chain cover was damaged, that could possibly be it.

 

[93GTosu]

Dumb question, but I'm guessing you did not disassemble the entire motor after swapping head gaskets again? Chance there may have been some moisture left in the engine after you changed the oil the first time?

when i first saw coolant in the oil and swapped gaskets, i didnt take everything off the motor--just the heads and intake. is it really possible there was enough coolant left to turn the oil milky again????

I haven't pulled the water pump off my 5.0 yet, but on my 289 a few of the bolts that retain the water pump do double duty and keep the timing chain cover tight. If you removed some during the water pump install, and the gasket behind the timing chain cover was damaged, that could possibly be it.

is there any way i can narrow it down to the timing cover? i've never done a compression test or leakdown test...which of those would tell me if the HG is gone/help pinpoint the leak??

thanks guys

 

[93GTosu]

back TTT

i'm back at school right now but i'd like to know what to do next time i get a chance to work on the car

i've been reading on corral and it seems that anything over 20ft/lbs on the lower intake runs the risk of lifting the heads? i guess it's possible i over torqued those bolts...

what can i do to find the leak? i really dont want to run the car again with milky oil and destroy something.

 

[86bluecobra]

Asa far as lifting the head after you torque the lower intake down you should retorque your head bolts. That would eliminate the head lift issue. As for your coolant mystery I have no help for you sir.

 

[BlownFiveLiter]

I've heard of the possibility of lifting the heads myself, but I wouldn't think 22 lb. ft. would really be enough to do it, although stranger things have happened. I did all of my lower bolts to 18 lb. ft., and I'm pretty sure that was mid-way between the lowest and highest recommended torque that my service manual stated. You should really have the system pressure tested when you have a chance, just to ensure you're not replacing gaskets again in the event that you just happened to still have some residual coolant in the system.

 

[Biggeley]

This may be a dumb question.. But did you change the oil after doing all the work?

 

[4G-KDMP]

This may be a dumb question.. But did you change the oil after doing all the work?

i was wondering the same thing.

 

[93quicklilpony]

i know your problem

ok i have a 93 gt and this problem happened to me 2 years ago i did the exact same thing as you but i also took off the heads and changed the gaskets and put everything back together spent like 150 on gaskets and everything everytime i did it got really annoying well had another car at the time and stoped driving it and sold some of my performance parts when i was needing some money well longs tory short about 3 months ago i had a guy looking to buy the car and he came into my garage and i was tellin him about it and he asked if i had the original block and heads and i din't have the block but i had the headas and he put a strait edge accross them and they were warped

all this means that more then likely you ahve the same problem i had if my stock heads were warped that means my stock block was warped meaning my new flat GT40s were not meshing right and leaking water

 

[whtpny]

After reading al the way to the last post I had the same idea. Were the heads looked at before the install? Cheap insurance on used heads and cheap enough to have them rebuilt anyway.

 

[krallman]

I agree with them and say that the warped heads are you probablem. Take them to a machince shop and get them shaved. Itll raise your compression ratio though so youll have to run a higher octane, but youll get enough horses out of it to feel a little difference.

 

[93GTosu]

hey guys,

oil and filter were changed when i swapped the gaskets.

I had my heads looked over before the install. A highly regarded machine shop in town did a valve job, new springs, and a slight shave. He said it really didnt need a shave because they were flat, but it would give me slightly more compression (as u said) and give me a fresh surface to work with.

i could take a straight edge to the e7s and see if they're flat...if my block is warped though...what then????

what do i do to see if the head gaskets are sealed correctly? a compression test? i've never done one but i'll search it.


is it POSSIBLE there is coolant leaking somewhere other than the HGs? i dunno, i mean the little spray from the tailpipes makes me think there's coolant being burned right?? and how else would coolant get into the combustion chamber other than through the HGs? (just thinking out loud, tell me if there's another way) would just the fact that the coolant is mixing with the oil SOMEWHERE produce coolant out the tails?


thanks very very much for the responses guys!

 

[93GTosu]

Asa far as lifting the head after you torque the lower intake down you should retorque your head bolts. That would eliminate the head lift issue. As for your coolant mystery I have no help for you sir.

quick question,

once coolant makes its way across the head gasket...is it done for? or would a retorque "save" it??

 

[whtpny]

I would not re-torque unless the gaskets were meant for it. I woul not worry about a little water spray out of pipes. If there is a lot of coolant in the chambers it will be heavy white smoke and smell like anitfreeze really bad. Did you put sealant on the lower head bolts?

 

[93GTosu]

I would not re-torque unless the gaskets were meant for it. I woul not worry about a little water spray out of pipes. If there is a lot of coolant in the chambers it will be heavy white smoke and smell like anitfreeze really bad. Did you put sealant on the lower head bolts?

ok, thanks. There wasnt any smoke...and it didnt smell like coolant-just exhaust.

i put thread sealer on the lower head bolts.


i've been reading but:
can i do a compression test on the motor without starting it up to verify if the HGs are still intact? i really dont wanna run it with any amount of coolant in the oil...

a pressure test on my coolant system would tell me what? it would make a noise where the coolant is leaking? even though the coolant is leaking internally, would i still be able to hear it?

am i going in the right direction here??

thanks

 

[11sec87]

old school test for head gaskets, take off the radiator cap and start the car. Let it get to temp. if its a popped head gasketaround the cyclinders, it will blow bubbles . WARNING- major leaks will blow major hot water. Fill the radiator completely before doing this and DO NOT sick you face in the hole to look- youwill get burned! This will help you determine if the antifreeze smell is burning off the headers or out the pipes. good luck

 

[Nibbie]

I would say get a coolant prssue tester, hook it to the radiator and pump it up, ther should be a guage on it that shows if you are lossing pressue or not. Get enough pressue in the radiator and you whole cooling system then you could possably see where its leaking out from. If its just leaking into the oil i would say you might have a damaged block and one of the water jackets has a hole or crack in it and leaks coolant. Now the compression test, 1st disconect i think its the fuel pump relay, little black box located under drivers seat, connect the tool to what ever spark plulg hole your starting with, turn the engine over about 3-4 times (3-4 cranks) read the compression gauge, compare it with specs (sorry i dont remember what they are). You are not saposed to start the engine, just let it crank to build up compression in the cylinders. Good luck