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Stupid Emissions Question...

  • Thread starter Thread starter wahoo23
  • Start date Start date Sep 25, 2007
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wahoo23

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Sep 22, 2007
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Parker, Colorado
Sep 25, 2007
#1
  • Sep 25, 2007
  • #1
I'm a newbie to the classic car arena with my 'new' '67 coupe w/ a 302, so I will apologize in advance. Today, my car failed emissions with a 1033 measurement for Hydrocarbons at idle. Limit is 1000. Just missed. What's my quickest/easiest/cheapest course of action, keeping in mind that this car will only need to pass one time for as long as I own it? Carb adjustment? Although I cannot be sure, wires look new, so I would assume that plugs are not that old either.
 
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ron67fb

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Aug 3, 2001
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SF Bay area, CA
Sep 26, 2007
#2
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #2
HC is unburned fuel, which means something is preventing full combustion such as a misfire, or something is soaking up fuel i.e. carbon deposits. What's the CO reading? When I last smogged my cammed and modified 289 I passed with ~700ppm HC. A few things that can clean up HC: long, hot drive, oil change, clean plugs, and hotter thermostat. A carb adjust might help if the CO reading is high, meaning the engine is running so rich it's misfiring. A carb adjusted too lean will also cause the HC to shoot up because of a lean misfire.
 

wahoo23

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Sep 22, 2007
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Parker, Colorado
Sep 26, 2007
#3
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #3
ron67fb said:
HC is unburned fuel, which means something is preventing full combustion such as a misfire, or something is soaking up fuel i.e. carbon deposits. What's the CO reading? When I last smogged my cammed and modified 289 I passed with ~700ppm HC. A few things that can clean up HC: long, hot drive, oil change, clean plugs, and hotter thermostat. A carb adjust might help if the CO reading is high, meaning the engine is running so rich it's misfiring. A carb adjusted too lean will also cause the HC to shoot up because of a lean misfire.
Click to expand...

I actually drove 45 minutes to the testing site and that didn't seem to help. The CO reading was 3.49 at 2500rpm and 0.59 at idle, limit is 5.50. So it sounds like a carb adjustment is not the answer. So the best idea here is to do plugs, wires and thermostat? Is the thermostat tough to get to (I haven't looked)? Will the thermostat be marked, so I know what I'm getting is a hotter one?
 

JDS68Stang

New Member
Sep 3, 2007
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New York State
Sep 26, 2007
#4
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #4
Ok this is kinda funny because my GF was just telling me today about a nutjob on a Yorkie dog site talking about how her car failed an emmisions test.

She said she prayed and asked God to help her out, she went to the auto store and bought some additive and also put high octane gas in her car, she then took the car and w/Gods help she passed the emmissions test after, LMAO.

OK, yea that lady was nuts, but maybe high octane might actually help, I really don't know? You could run most all your gas out and then try $25. worth. Also the auto store might have an additive that will get you thru the test, again I don't know but you might wanna stop in one and ask the guys about it.

My GF's sleeping so I can't ask her what additive that nut used.

If this crazy ladies method works for this guy, it's gonna make you motorheads here look pretty bad!!!!,LMAO
 

Rusty67

20+ Year Stangneter
Dec 3, 2002
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LA, CA
Sep 26, 2007
#5
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #5
Along with the plugs/wires, you might also want to change the cap/rotor on the distributor.

Edit:
67s didn't come with 302s they came with 289s. Are you sure that is a 302 in there ?
 

wahoo23

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Sep 22, 2007
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Parker, Colorado
Sep 26, 2007
#6
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #6
Rusty67 said:
Along with the plugs/wires, you might also want to change the cap/rotor on the distributor.

Edit:
67s didn't come with 302s they came with 289s. Are you sure that is a 302 in there ?
Click to expand...

Yes, it's not the original motor.
 

jeffnoel

Founding Member
Aug 31, 2002
1,638
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Clovis, CA
Sep 26, 2007
#7
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #7
Were are you located?
 

wahoo23

Member
Sep 22, 2007
63
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Parker, Colorado
Sep 26, 2007
#8
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #8
jeffnoel said:
Were are you located?
Click to expand...

Denver.
 
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ron67fb

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SF Bay area, CA
Sep 26, 2007
#9
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #9
That CO is pretty good for idle. HC readings that high with low CO points to a misfire. Do you hear it misfire at all at idle? Even one hiccuping cylinder will cause problems. Could be a too-lean idle mixture, worn plug(s) with oversized gaps, vacuum leak, or plug wire shorting out.

Higher octane won't do anything beneficial, but there are additives out there that claim it will help the car pass smog.

If you're only failing by 33ppm then tune-up parts may save you. 1000 at idle is eye-watering, brain cell-killing specs and points to a dead cylinder. As a rough comparison, my 289 put out about 500 at idle when it was stock, and I've seen 5.0 EFI engines with no cats idle at 150ppm.

Search Stangnet for 'hydrocarbon', especially the 5.0 tech forum.
 

Platonic Solid

Founding Member
May 29, 2002
1,960
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39
CT-USA
Sep 26, 2007
#10
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #10
wahoo23 said:
I'm a newbie to the classic car arena with my 'new' '67 coupe w/ a 302, so I will apologize in advance. Today, my car failed emissions with a 1033 measurement for Hydrocarbons at idle. Limit is 1000. Just missed. What's my quickest/easiest/cheapest course of action, keeping in mind that this car will only need to pass one time for as long as I own it? Carb adjustment? Although I cannot be sure, wires look new, so I would assume that plugs are not that old either.
Click to expand...

Long ago when emissions testing was required on my 72 (302), it always failed. Until I started turning both carb screws "In" about a half turn (the car barely idled, but didn't stall) right before the test, then turned them back out right after the test. Worked every time.
 

rbohm

Founding Member
Apr 12, 2002
6,698
550
204
tucson,az
Sep 26, 2007
#11
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #11
first torque the intake to make sure you dont have any vacuum leaks. next set your timing between 10 and 14 degrees. adjust your idle mixture to where you have the highest vacuum reading you can get. run the idle speed up to around 950 rpm. and add three gallons of E85 to the tank. the alcohol wont read on the emissions sensors as it burns too cold.
 

SoCalCruising

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Jul 25, 2000
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SoCal
Sep 26, 2007
#12
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #12
Tricksy.
 

JDS68Stang

New Member
Sep 3, 2007
153
1
0
New York State
Sep 26, 2007
#13
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #13
OK, looks like you got some decent answers so far. I think rbohm's suggestion should get you thru the "cheapest" as that's what you wanted to do.
ron67fb also says he's heard of the additives that are supposed to help get you thru as well so check that out since your that close to passing.

After you pass I would still take the direction of these other posts when you have time and tune the engine to optimum performance though.

Hope you guys have as sence of humor about the crazy nut making you motorheads look bad, just a joke. My GF says now the woman put two bottles of injector cleaner in her tank w/ the high octane and that's how she got thru.
 

LONN17

Founding Member
Dec 1, 2000
135
1
17
Oceanport, NJ
Sep 26, 2007
#14
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #14
G2P

CRC makes a product called Garunteed 2 Pass (G2P). Available at most auto parts stores.
 

zookeeper

Founding Member
Aug 25, 2001
3,415
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109
Rogue River, Oregon
Sep 26, 2007
#15
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #15
JDS68Stang said:
OK, looks like you got some decent answers so far. I think rbohm's suggestion should get you thru the "cheapest" as that's what you wanted to do.
ron67fb also says he's heard of the additives that are supposed to help get you thru as well so check that out since your that close to passing.

After you pass I would still take the direction of these other posts when you have time and tune the engine to optimum performance though.

Hope you guys have as sence of humor about the crazy nut making you motorheads look bad, just a joke. My GF says now the woman put two bottles of injector cleaner in her tank w/ the high octane and that's how she got thru.
Click to expand...
Most injector cleaner I've seen is made from methanol, which is why it burned cleaner. But if you want a long-term solution, I'd install a Pertronix ignition with the coil as well. I have one in my '68 and stock points in my wife's '69 Corvette. It really burns my eyes to run the Corvette in the garage for more than a few seconds, while the Mustang burns MUCH cleaner, despite the fact it has a pair of Holley four barrels for carbs. I know you're looking for a quickie fix just to get it to pass for now, but swapping to a modern igniton will get you better mileage and easier starts as well.
 
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Sicarius428

Active Member
Jan 6, 2004
2,085
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49
Sep 26, 2007
#16
  • Sep 26, 2007
  • #16
MSD might help to burn things out a tad. Worked on my friend's car quite well. Change the plugs, cap, rotor and wires. Retard the timing to 8*. You can also run regular which will cause more detonation/hotter burn. You can lean out the carb a little... That should do it for only 33 points.
Kevin
 

reenmachine

20+ Year Stangneter
Jun 27, 2004
1,258
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38
Montrose, CA
Sep 27, 2007
#17
  • Sep 27, 2007
  • #17
rbohm said:
next set your timing between 10 and 14 degrees. adjust your idle mixture to where you have the highest vacuum reading you can get. run the idle speed up to around 950 rpm.
Click to expand...

Having been through this recently this is the advice I was going to post. Is there a "lopey" can in your 302? This can cause just enough inefficient combustion at idle to cause you to fail HC. Since you're so close I would wager that advancing the timing and turning up the idle will get you there.

For reference, in AZ I had a '67 with a fuel injected 345 hp GT40 5.0L fail HCs at idle. Anywhere above idle the thing blew clean and up on the cam is blew practically nothing. It's that B cam in there that made it fail at idle even when everything was working perfectly.
 
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67efivert

Member
Jan 26, 2003
348
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lincolnton nc
Sep 27, 2007
#18
  • Sep 27, 2007
  • #18
actually id have to disagree i used to do emissions testing here in nc and if u retard the timing it will actually burn cleaner run like crap but it will pass id bet if u turned ur timing down to bout 3-4 degrees it would pass ive seen as much as 300 ppm hc drop from retarded timing
 

TD68302

New Member
Jul 29, 2007
57
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Arvada, CO.
Sep 27, 2007
#19
  • Sep 27, 2007
  • #19
Are you sure that you need a e-test, I have not needed to test my '68. Im in denver and using the 5 year collector plates. Might check into it, I don't think you need the E-test because of age.
 

TD68302

New Member
Jul 29, 2007
57
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Arvada, CO.
Sep 27, 2007
#20
  • Sep 27, 2007
  • #20
Anyways sweet looking ride
 
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