Subframe Connectors

HammerG26 · Jan 13, 2006

I have a set of Subframe Connectors I am going to be installing - they are bolt on. I plan on having them welded on, as well (or maybe just welded on). Regardless, should the car be loaded (weight on the tires) or should the car be unloaded (supported be the frame) when I install them? Why?
Thanks in advance.

red65 · Jan 13, 2006

Cars (and bridges, airplanes, building and everything else) flex under load. When you install the subframe connectors, you'd like your car to be "flexed" just how it would be when going down the road. If it's twisted or bent a little one way or the other because it's supported on jack stands or suspended from the hood ornament (lol), the subframe connectors will forever be trying to push the car back into the shape it was when it was up on jackstands or suspended from its hood ornament, which may have nothing to do with its shape when it's cruising down the road.

See?

That said, it's pretty difficult to get underneath the car to make good welds while it's sitting a few inches off the ground. Just raise the car and support it as though it was on level ground (ramps would be good for this). Hope that helps - good luck!

302 coupe · Jan 13, 2006

I'm using bolt in subs from competition engineering, but I welded them in. For the rear, your can jack it up and support it by placing jack stands under the axle. This way the chassis is loaded the same as if the tires were on the ground. For the front you can jack it up and place some wood blocks under the tires, that should give you enough room to weld, but it won't be comfortable by a long shot. Welding while lying on your back under car is not a pleasurable experience, be sure to wear some thick gloves, a helmet that covers your whole face, and maybe try to cover your body with a thick blanket or something. Those sparks will fall down on you and they can hurt. Other than that, just be sure to clean all undercoating, paint, grease, galvanized coating, etc from the surfaces you plan to weld. A sanding wheel on a angle grinder works well. Take your time and do it right, you don't want to have to cut them back off.

HammerG26 · Jan 13, 2006

Thanks for the ideas, but I am not going to do it - I will be taking it to a shop to do it. I have done some business with a local exhaust shop, and think they would do a good job, but they only have drive on lifts. Hence the question, if the car had to be unloaded, then they would not be able to help me.
Thanks for the advice.

tylerrocks · Jan 13, 2006

yeah good idea.

blandq · Jan 13, 2006

I put sub-frame connectors on my 64.5 but before I did I took it to a good frame shop and had it shot to make sure I was not going to make a little more permanent any warped or skewed sub-frames.

mustangdave · Jan 13, 2006

Drive on lifts are the best way. Go for it. A pit will also work, but that's alot of shoveling.

Glen's 1965 5.0 · Jan 13, 2006

Yep.. Drive on lift.

HammerG26 · Jan 20, 2006

Here comes the confusing part... the instructions say to have the car with the weight off (i.e. tires hanging)... also, I am going to be removing the front leaf spring bolt (wish me luck on this on). So, do I follow the instructions or the logic you all stated on here? I need to figure this out, as I plan on bolting them on tomorrow.

BigDaddyCee · Jan 20, 2006

I am in the process of making my own sub-frame connectors. The ones I am making are basically the same ones they give you instructions to on the Mustang and Fords site under the tech articles. These guys recommend that you use four Drive up ramps to set your vehicle on when you get to the welding in stage. So if you go by their lead then yes you need your frame and suspension under load. Tires supported.

dennis112 · Jan 21, 2006

HammerG26 said:
Here comes the confusing part... the instructions say to have the car with the weight off (i.e. tires hanging)... also, I am going to be removing the front leaf spring bolt (wish me luck on this on). So, do I follow the instructions or the logic you all stated on here? I need to figure this out, as I plan on bolting them on tomorrow.

I have never seen any instruction that said to take the weight off the car. Perhaps you interpeted it wrong and it was merely telling you to raise the car to create enough clearance for you to work??????

Most want either you to keep everything "in-plane" as driven (support at the wheels) OR they recommend supporting the body under the floor pans to help remove the years of sag (creating an arch.)

I prefer to keep things "in-plane" as any modification can cause alignment problems with the doors and fenders, although I can understand the 2nd method too. The 2nd method is probably best left to a frame specialist. The method you are mentioning just doesn't make sense.

I do not recommend removing the front leaf spring bolt unless you are replacing it or the leaf springs. First of all it might be rusted to the spring and need to be cut out. You may get it out, but will have a mother of a time putting them back in if the rest of the rear is still attached. If removing the shackles will do the same thing as you want, I always recommend doing that instead--it's easier.

HammerG26 · Jan 21, 2006

You all were right - only had to take the weight off because the rear bolt uses the front leaf spring bolt hole (it provides its own bolt). However, I could not get the bolt out.
I am not sure what to do now. I tried the "use another bolt" trick I saw on here (or another forum), and I tried banging on it, best I could do was 1/8" gap. I did not even try the driver side. Now what do I do? Here is what I have thought of:
1. Forget about them
2. Cut off the flange that bolts to the subframe through the front leaf spring bolt and just weld it
3. Cut out the old bolt and use new bushings.

OK - spent all day on this, need to rest.

Hank

krash kendall · Jan 21, 2006

Use a zip disk on a grinder or a sawsall and cut the old bolts. Bit of a pain, but it'll be for the best.

HammerG26 · Jan 21, 2006

yeah... I am thinking I am just going to give up, cut them off, put in new springs, new bushings, and subframes... all at the same time... just means I have to wait... patience - not too good at that.

BigDaddyCee · Jan 22, 2006

If these are original springs then chances are the bolts are seized in there. I recently replaced my rear springs and there was no chance of getting the bolts out of there alive. I wound up using a sawzall and a grinder. Buy extra blades because you will be breaking more than one. I used the longer ones it provided better access. Basically had to cut the bolt on both ends closest to the spring and drop the spring down. The middle part of the bolt is still in the old spring eyelet. Yes it was a PITA.

Jester67 · Jan 22, 2006

I have seen that some weld on sub-frames that state the rear spring has to be removed that is why most people get the bolt on type and weld them on.

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