Supercharger Question...

SUPERCHARGER

05GTRICECRUSHER said:

well my parents have had my mustang since 05, they bought it new and when i turned 16 in 08 they gave it to me and i have done some mods to it and i was thinking about getting a supercharger and i was wondering, because it does have 48k miles on it i was wondering if the motor could handle it. also if i did that what would you recommend, im pushing toward a roots style (preferably Kenne Bell). and i would like to get cams, and i know they can be very expensive to have installed. also what kind of cam would you recommend with a supercharger. thanks..

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I would assume that with 48K on the motor, your motor can handle a KB supercharger with no problem. Just keep in mind that the motor does have 48K miles on it and its life may be shortened at this point. (I could be wrong because I don't know anyone who has installed a supercharger on a motor with 48K on it)...

Regarding the installation of cam, with the KB supercharger you should not have to go the expense of a new cam because in itself, the KB will produce enough HP and RWHP to make you happy...

I have a Saleen Supercharger with a few steps smaller pulley, 90mm mass air, 39lb injectors which generate over 400RWHP with this setup... The power is incredible without a new cams...

If you have an automatic tranny, the safe zone is about 450RWHP... Over that and you better spend your money beefing up your tranny...

Dave

I agree that cams with a supercharger is an unnecessary expense. Do you have an auto or manual?

Either way the Kenne Bell is more than capable of making enough power to blow the bottom end out of the engine, so don't bother with cams unless you are going with a built motor.

Well if you want to go nuts from the get go then the FRPP Whipple H.O. kit M-6066-M11 is a good choice with 550 crank HP. It has a lot of power and future upgrade potential so be prepared to melt the stock clutch if you're going to floor it often. The most reliable choice for a daily driver in my opinion would be Edelbrock E-Force # 1580. It's 465 crank HP, easy to install and does not require changing fuel pump.

I think the E-force kit is a nice streetable kit and priced reasonable. This would be my choice if I was getting new unless I wanted the Supershaker from Saleen...otherwise E-force. And I have the Supershaker.

I didn't change my fuel pump. If you don't up the boost too much, the stock pump is ok.

I like my Supershaker. It is a visual mod and functional mod. Functional in the sense that it cools the inlet air temps much faster than a closed hood supercharger. Getting back into the car after running into a store (especially during the summer), the air inlet temps are quite high. The Supershaker allows the temps to drop a lot faster than a closed hood system.

I have seen them new for $5399+shipping a few times. I have seen the E-force less.

The Supershaker package gives you the 3.67" pulley, injectors, plugs, plus the normal other stuff.

No cams. Enough power with the blower considering the cost of the cams and the stock block can barely handle the blower.

BCB00GT said:

No cams. Enough power with the blower considering the cost of the cams and the stock block can barely handle the blower.

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Totally agree.

By the way Kenny Bell is a twin screw not a roots. The air charge goes down in between the 2 rotors on a twin screw and around the outside (with the blower housing) on a roots.

As far as putting cams in a super charged car. Yes you can do it and it will run but, with bigger cams you have to run less boost to prevent power loss, detonation, and a problem with unmeasured air and floating the valves to much. If you want to make great power with out cams, heads, notched pistons, and such. Go with the KB 2.1L. I had one and on the 14psi pulley i made 407RWHP and 512ftlbs of torque at a little over 6000 ft elevation.

anthony05gt said:

By the way Kenny Bell is a twin screw not a roots. The air charge goes down in between the 2 rotors on a twin screw and around the outside (with the blower housing) on a roots.

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By the way Kenny Bell is a twin screw not a roots. The air charge goes down in between the 2 rotors on a twin screw and around the outside (with the blower housing) on a roots


The Kenne Bell is a twin screw ROOTS STYLE supercharger. Yes it is not a traditional roots but it derived from the roots. In turn it is a type of roots supercharger.

discofan said:

I would assume that with 48K on the motor, your motor can handle a KB supercharger with no problem. Just keep in mind that the motor does have 48K miles on it and its life may be shortened at this point. (I could be wrong because I don't know anyone who has installed a supercharger on a motor with 48K on it)...

Regarding the installation of cam, with the KB supercharger you should not have to go the expense of a new cam because in itself, the KB will produce enough HP and RWHP to make you happy...

I have a Saleen Supercharger with a few steps smaller pulley, 90mm mass air, 39lb injectors which generate over 400RWHP with this setup... The power is incredible without a new cams...

If you have an automatic tranny, the safe zone is about 450RWHP... Over that and you better spend your money beefing up your tranny...

Dave

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Yes, he may make enough power without the cams, but if he's got the money, I say get the cams, the main reason for getting SC cams in the first place is to stop the loss of boost on the exhaust stroke. I'm getting ready to do it, and will post my HP gains.

jibloni said:

As far as putting cams in a super charged car. Yes you can do it and it will run but, with bigger cams you have to run less boost to prevent power loss, detonation, and a problem with unmeasured air and floating the valves to much. If you want to make great power with out cams, heads, notched pistons, and such. Go with the KB 2.1L. I had one and on the 14psi pulley i made 407RWHP and 512ftlbs of torque at a little over 6000 ft elevation.

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Lowering the boost to run with big cams to prevent power loss? I don't know where you get that from.

Running big cams will lower the boost for a given pulley size, because there is less back pressure and a higher flow rate. But it has nothing to do with preventing power loss. You just go to a smaller pulley (which turns the supercharger faster) to reach the same boost level. So know you have the same boost, but allot more flow... which translates into higher horsepower.

Detonation issues due to the boost and cams? Detonation can be caused by a poor air fuel ratio (which is controlled by the fuel injector size and the tune), high IAT's, high compression, bogging the engine down, too much boost, and poor gas, and not much to do with the cams.

Floating the valves has to do with cam profile, spring stiffness, and rpm, not boost (at least at boost levels appropriate for a street car. If you are running 30 to 50 lb boost, that might be a different story... but that ain't going to be a street car.

A problem with unmeasured air? Only if your MAF is screwed up, or you don't have a MAF capable of the higher flow rates, or don't have the proper MAF transform in the tune, or you have a vaccuum leak.

The big issue with high lift cams and blowers is that big cams don't pull much vaccuum, so you will have issues with it the bypass valve wanting to go into boost unless you get a low vaccuum bypass valve. Even then they want to go into boost at low throttle settings / rpms.

Truthfully, if I had to do it over again, I would install much less aggressive cams. I have Comp Stage 1 blower cams with a KB 2.6, and the low vaccuum bypass valve diaphram. Even with the low vaccuum diaphram, it still goes into boost at low throttle settings, which is turning out to be a total pain in the but. And then there is the VCT issues the big cams / stiff springs have caused.

Unless you are going to trailer it to the drag strip, don't mess with the cams on a roots or twin screw setup.

Most 3 valve KB's are 2.6L and usually put out close to 500 hp at 10 to 11 psi on a stock engine. They also make a 2.8 kit as well, and the smallest I remember them making for the 3V was a 2.4L.

jibloni said:

By the way Kenny Bell is a twin screw not a roots. The air charge goes down in between the 2 rotors on a twin screw and around the outside (with the blower housing) on a roots


The Kenne Bell is a twin screw ROOTS STYLE supercharger. Yes it is not a traditional roots but it derived from the roots. In turn it is a type of roots supercharger.

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You are dead wrong.

A twin screw compresses the air axialy, not radially like a roots. The air enters at the rear of the twin screw, is trapped in a volume between the rotors. As the rotors turn, the volume between the rotors gets smaller as it moves forward, getting internally compressed along the way, and then exits at the forward part of the supercharger. In a roots supercharger, all of the compression occurs at the interface of the rotors in a radial fashion, and basically, has no internal compression, and relies totally on back pressure to create boost. The twin screw still requires back pressure, as does any type of turbo or supercharger, but a large percentage of the compression occurs internally. While both are positive displacement superchargers, and while both have rotors that interact with each other, they are fundamentally different.

They also have completely independant origins as well. The twin screw design was originally developed and patented by Lysholm in Europe. The primary use was for very large industrial compressors. This was long before they were adapted to automobiles.

stang06girl said:

You are dead wrong.

A twin screw compresses the air axialy, not radially like a roots. The air enters at the rear of the twin screw, is trapped in a volume between the rotors. As the rotors turn, the volume between the rotors gets smaller as it moves forward, getting internally compressed along the way, and then exits at the forward part of the supercharger. In a roots supercharger, all of the compression occurs at the interface of the rotors in a radial fashion, and basically, has no internal compression, and relies totally on back pressure to create boost. The twin screw still requires back pressure, as does any type of turbo or supercharger, but a large percentage of the compression occurs internally. While both are positive displacement superchargers, and while both have rotors that interact with each other, they are fundamentally different.

They also have completely independant origins as well. The twin screw design was originally developed and patented by Lysholm in Europe. The primary use was for very large industrial compressors. This was long before they were adapted to automobiles.

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Your dead wrong??? Even if she is, that's a lady you're talking to, not one of your dimwitted friends. Show some respect... that's one of the things that's wrong with your generation...you don't know JACK about talking to a woman. Notice I said woman, not " girl ". But you wouldn't know of such things.