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  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-
  • 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech

surging idle? IAC VALVE?

  • Thread starter Thread starter 94cobra#519
  • Start date Start date Aug 8, 2009
9

94cobra#519

New Member
Jun 1, 2009
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0
fresno cali.
Aug 8, 2009
#1
  • Aug 8, 2009
  • #1
hey, so im thinking my surging idle is cause do to my IAC valve. but if you think different let me know. it surges between 400-800 rpm constantly. sometimes even dies when cold motor. any ideas? other wise im going to try the Idle air control valve. btw my car is basically stock.
 

HISSIN50

"How long does it take to get help in here?
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
31,179
34
129
Aug 8, 2009
#2
  • Aug 8, 2009
  • #2
No one can say based upon what you've said. Have you pulled codes? It should throw an idle limit code.
If you think it's the IAC valve, have you tried letting it idle without the electrical connector connected? Have you cleaned the IAC?
 
9

94cobra#519

New Member
Jun 1, 2009
86
0
0
fresno cali.
Aug 9, 2009
#3
  • Aug 9, 2009
  • #3
yeah i cleaned the iac with carb cleaner and it seems to help. maybe not completely but a little. i will run it without the connection on it and see what happens?
 

R.J.

Member
Aug 20, 2003
813
0
16
Warwick, Rhode Island
Aug 9, 2009
#4
  • Aug 9, 2009
  • #4
is it worse with your A/C on?
 
9

94cobra#519

New Member
Jun 1, 2009
86
0
0
fresno cali.
Aug 9, 2009
#5
  • Aug 9, 2009
  • #5
R.J. said:
is it worse with your A/C on?
Click to expand...

yeah? do you know what it is? cause it started doing it again.
 

HISSIN50

"How long does it take to get help in here?
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
31,179
34
129
Aug 9, 2009
#6
  • Aug 9, 2009
  • #6
The AC commands more duty cycle from the IAC. If you turn the AC on and the idle sucks even worse than normal, that suggests the IAC isn't functioning properly. Ditto for your cold starts.
 

R.J.

Member
Aug 20, 2003
813
0
16
Warwick, Rhode Island
Aug 10, 2009
#7
  • Aug 10, 2009
  • #7
exactly. replace your IAC with an OEM one and reset your idle with this procedure:

Begin with a cold vehicle. The idea here is to get the car to a firm cold idle with enough air bleed capacity left in the idle circuit for IAC adjustment.

The idle stop should be set first. Back out the idle stop screw, away from the bell crank arm, until about 1/2 turn past the point where it no longer makes contact (blade fully closed). Using a 0.010" feeler gauge, tighten until gauge just drags between screw and bell crank arm. Remove feeler gauge. Tighten screw exactly 1 1/2 turns. If the screw is very loose, put a drop of loc-tite or silicone on it, so it doesn't work out of adjustment.

Now remove the connector to the Idle Air Controller (IAC) just on the other side of the throttle body. Start the car and allow vehicle to warm for 2 minutes. Give a small "blip" to let it settle. If it is having a hard time staying running you may have to get an assistant until you can get to the front of the car. Now open or close the air bleed screw (CCW opens) next to the IAC until the car idles at 575 to 600 rpm. For guys with aftermarket cams and an EEC tuner, you might want to idle a bit more briskly, say 650 to 675.

Obviously, this rpm range is by what the car and driver wants...IE, no set idle speed, whatever works for YOU.

Turn off the car. Now count the number of turns clockwise to close on the idle air bleed screw. If it falls between 1/2 and 2, it's okay, now reverse it out the same number of turns. Log the number somewhere in case you need it for the future. Reconnect the IAC. You are done.

If the air bleed screw is above 2 turns, it's a good idea to tighten the idle stop screw another 1/2 turn, and then repeat the idle setting. If it is below 1/2 turn, then loosen the idle stop screw by 1/4 to 1/2 a turn, and repeat the idle setting. Be sure to put another drop of silicone RTV on the stop screw if it was disturbed. Reconnect the IAC.

Now remember we adjusted the set screw on the throttle body. That means that the voltage reading from the TPS sensor has changed. It should read between .96 and .99 volts. Anything outside of that range will cause all sorts of issues including misfires and rough idle.

you will have to back probe the TPS connector. With the connector attached to the TPS stick a paper clip into the rubber boot on the connector where the top and middle wires go into the connector. The rubber is very flexible the paper clip will slide in between the rubber and the wire.

Set your multimeter to volts. Turn ignition to ON. Then place your multimeter leads on the metal pins. If it comes up as a negative that is okay as long as you are -.96 to -.99. If you get this reading then great you are done and hopefully your issues are gone. If not proceed to step 9

This is where and extra pair of hands come in handy. Using a large screw driver you will need to loosen the bolts that hold the TPS. DO NOT USE A SCREWDRIVER THAT IS TOO SMALL BECAUSE YOU WILL STRIP THE BOLTS. They probably will be really tight so you have to really lean on the screwdriver and use some finesse.

Once the bolts are loose you will need to move the TPS up or down and continue to read the voltage. Once you get it to the desired setting you can retighten the bolts. What I do is I find .97 and then as carefully as possible I tighten the TPS down. what will happen is the voltage will change usually to .96 or .98 but that it okay. Once you are done with this manually open the throttle body a few times and close it then reread the voltage and make sure it is still within our desired range.

Depending upon how loose your set screw was you might want to cover it in RTV to hold your setting. At this point you have CORRECTLY reset you idle.
 

True 5.0

Member
Sep 22, 2006
237
0
17
Southeastern Wisconsin
Aug 10, 2009
#8
  • Aug 10, 2009
  • #8
I couldn't get my engine to idle and after a lot of research (ages ago), we found that people were drilling a small hole in the throttle plate (maybe 3/16"?) to get a bit of extra idle air. It worked wonders for my engine idle.
 
9

94cobra#519

New Member
Jun 1, 2009
86
0
0
fresno cali.
Aug 10, 2009
#9
  • Aug 10, 2009
  • #9
im going to clean my MAF can i use throttle body cleaner?
 

True 5.0

Member
Sep 22, 2006
237
0
17
Southeastern Wisconsin
Aug 11, 2009
#10
  • Aug 11, 2009
  • #10
You can use T-body or carb cleaner. If you use carb cleaner, make sure you don't get it on or in the T-body as it will remove the factory applied anti-fouling coating.
 
9

94cobra#519

New Member
Jun 1, 2009
86
0
0
fresno cali.
Aug 11, 2009
#11
  • Aug 11, 2009
  • #11
well i cleaned my TB. my MAF. and my IAC valve. and it didnt seem to help. if i disconnect the electrical connection to my IAC valve there is no change at all in idle. does that mean the IAC is out?
 

HISSIN50

"How long does it take to get help in here?
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
31,179
34
129
Aug 11, 2009
#12
  • Aug 11, 2009
  • #12
94cobra#519 said:
well i cleaned my TB. my MAF. and my IAC valve. and it didnt seem to help. if i disconnect the electrical connection to my IAC valve there is no change at all in idle. does that mean the IAC is out?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. The biggest difference would be felt if doing it while the AC is on or the engine is cold. Some cars are adjusted so that the IAC does very little at a hot, unloaded idle.
 
9

94cobra#519

New Member
Jun 1, 2009
86
0
0
fresno cali.
Aug 11, 2009
#13
  • Aug 11, 2009
  • #13
yeah it wont run cold. i literally have to hold the throttle for five min. also when the ac is on it is much worse.
 
9

94cobra#519

New Member
Jun 1, 2009
86
0
0
fresno cali.
Aug 11, 2009
#14
  • Aug 11, 2009
  • #14
R.J. said:
exactly. replace your IAC with an OEM one and reset your idle with this procedure:

Begin with a cold vehicle. The idea here is to get the car to a firm cold idle with enough air bleed capacity left in the idle circuit for IAC adjustment.

The idle stop should be set first. Back out the idle stop screw, away from the bell crank arm, until about 1/2 turn past the point where it no longer makes contact (blade fully closed). Using a 0.010" feeler gauge, tighten until gauge just drags between screw and bell crank arm. Remove feeler gauge. Tighten screw exactly 1 1/2 turns. If the screw is very loose, put a drop of loc-tite or silicone on it, so it doesn't work out of adjustment.

Now remove the connector to the Idle Air Controller (IAC) just on the other side of the throttle body. Start the car and allow vehicle to warm for 2 minutes. Give a small "blip" to let it settle. If it is having a hard time staying running you may have to get an assistant until you can get to the front of the car. Now open or close the air bleed screw (CCW opens) next to the IAC until the car idles at 575 to 600 rpm. For guys with aftermarket cams and an EEC tuner, you might want to idle a bit more briskly, say 650 to 675.

Obviously, this rpm range is by what the car and driver wants...IE, no set idle speed, whatever works for YOU.

Turn off the car. Now count the number of turns clockwise to close on the idle air bleed screw. If it falls between 1/2 and 2, it's okay, now reverse it out the same number of turns. Log the number somewhere in case you need it for the future. Reconnect the IAC. You are done.

If the air bleed screw is above 2 turns, it's a good idea to tighten the idle stop screw another 1/2 turn, and then repeat the idle setting. If it is below 1/2 turn, then loosen the idle stop screw by 1/4 to 1/2 a turn, and repeat the idle setting. Be sure to put another drop of silicone RTV on the stop screw if it was disturbed. Reconnect the IAC.

Now remember we adjusted the set screw on the throttle body. That means that the voltage reading from the TPS sensor has changed. It should read between .96 and .99 volts. Anything outside of that range will cause all sorts of issues including misfires and rough idle.

you will have to back probe the TPS connector. With the connector attached to the TPS stick a paper clip into the rubber boot on the connector where the top and middle wires go into the connector. The rubber is very flexible the paper clip will slide in between the rubber and the wire.

Set your multimeter to volts. Turn ignition to ON. Then place your multimeter leads on the metal pins. If it comes up as a negative that is okay as long as you are -.96 to -.99. If you get this reading then great you are done and hopefully your issues are gone. If not proceed to step 9

This is where and extra pair of hands come in handy. Using a large screw driver you will need to loosen the bolts that hold the TPS. DO NOT USE A SCREWDRIVER THAT IS TOO SMALL BECAUSE YOU WILL STRIP THE BOLTS. They probably will be really tight so you have to really lean on the screwdriver and use some finesse.

Once the bolts are loose you will need to move the TPS up or down and continue to read the voltage. Once you get it to the desired setting you can retighten the bolts. What I do is I find .97 and then as carefully as possible I tighten the TPS down. what will happen is the voltage will change usually to .96 or .98 but that it okay. Once you are done with this manually open the throttle body a few times and close it then reread the voltage and make sure it is still within our desired range.

Depending upon how loose your set screw was you might want to cover it in RTV to hold your setting. At this point you have CORRECTLY reset you idle.
Click to expand...

where is thee air bleeder screw at? i am going through ur steps.
 

final5-0

Mustang Master
Apr 6, 2003
6,817
12
79
DFW Texas
Aug 12, 2009
#15
  • Aug 12, 2009
  • #15
94cobra#519 said:
well i cleaned my TB. my MAF. and my IAC valve. and it didnt seem to help. if i disconnect the electrical connection to my IAC valve there is no change at all in idle. does that mean the IAC is out?
Click to expand...

Like JT said

You or somebody has cranked on the tb stop screw to the point
it is holding the tb blade open too far

This will ABSOLUTELY throw off several other settings in the pcm
to the point that
It doesn't know how to deal with what is happening

Now ... The above info is based upon .......
HOW MUCH airflow is moving past the isc

What usually happens is one of two things

1) Vac leak or something mechanically has gone wrong
2) Hot Rod parts have been added

In each case ... you get an unstable idle

Then ... Peeps crank down the screw to try and compensate for 1 or 2

The fix is .......

1 Find the thing that has gone wrong
2 Well ... I am a bit biased ... Being a self tuner and all
but
Sure ... Make sure no v leaks and stuff like tps, isc, etc work correctly
and then
See how much gain you can make by mechanically adjusting them

But Honestly ...
You can only do so much before getting inside the pcm :Word:

Grady
 
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