I just got my '66 Coupe back from paint. The body is pretty much done, the next step is front suspension and there are so many options that I'm not sure where to go with it. I don't plan on doing any extreme cornering or racing, but I want the handling to be tight and responsive, and I want a decent ride quality. I'm okay with dropping some cash on it for the right return, but the more I can save for the drivetrain, the better. I am certain that I want manual steering and manual disc brakes (this is going to be a man's car), but I'm not sure if I should just rebuild the stock and find some new spindles, brakes, steering components etc, or go with a new system. The stock suspension that's under it right now is wasted, so I'd sorta rather be rid of it. I don't really want to do any cutting or fabricating, so I've limited myself to the bolt in kits. Right now I'm leaning toward the Fat Man Coilovers with discs, rebuilt spindles, and rack&pinion steering. But there's several others out there. Let me know what you guys are using and what you think is the best ratio of performance, money, and ease of installation. Any information or suggestion is greatly appreciated.
Suspension Suggestions?
- Thread starter JMitchell59
- Start date
Loup-garou
Founding Member
I'm subscribing to this thread to see what suggestions are posted. I have a '65 FB for which I'm considering similar suspension mods - mostly trying to figure out which rear coilover kits work with full tailpipes at this point. I'd really prefer not to go the side exhaust route.
Well, I searched and searched and looked at everything and decided that spending $3000 on a front suspension system that still needed brakes was kinda silly and "poser" for a street car. So I opted for the Unisteer rack & pinion from Summit for $775 shipped and it works really well, so well that it shows the short comings of the rest of the car.
I then decided that if the Shelby cars were good enough to win a world championship and "jump" over hills doing it, that would be good enough for me.
I figure with Opentracker roller perches, OTR upper blueprinted arms and some good Moog lowers with new springs I would be even better than some racecars were 40 years ago, after all I have a rack and no bump steer right!
ARNING DROP...thats a given.
I have driven my car with the rack but have yet to install the new suspension. To really get it to handle I am going to replace the floor with a one piece and add additional welds and maybe torque boxes & stiffening to the car, no point in trying to make a flexible car handle.
The OTR roller perches reduce bind and allow for better articulation, imagine if these were 4x4's, you would want the suspension to move more freely right? I cant see it being anything but a bonus here. I went with the blueprinted uppers, he takes quality arms apart (not the cheap Ebay arms) and inspects & reassembles them correctly and welds the shaft nuts in place to prevent movement. From what I hear the arms off the shelf are often located incorrectly and the cost of his basic arms are not that much higher than they are at NAPA.
His lowers offer bearings and bracing if you think you need it.
The real question is will you ever out drive these parts in the real world? Will you drive the car or just show it off? Sure coil overs can be great on a race car or show car, but once you have the ride height adjusted they tend to get dirty and get ignored on a driver car.
I will need to figure out my rear suspension choices yet...
I then decided that if the Shelby cars were good enough to win a world championship and "jump" over hills doing it, that would be good enough for me.
I figure with Opentracker roller perches, OTR upper blueprinted arms and some good Moog lowers with new springs I would be even better than some racecars were 40 years ago, after all I have a rack and no bump steer right!
ARNING DROP...thats a given.
I have driven my car with the rack but have yet to install the new suspension. To really get it to handle I am going to replace the floor with a one piece and add additional welds and maybe torque boxes & stiffening to the car, no point in trying to make a flexible car handle.
The OTR roller perches reduce bind and allow for better articulation, imagine if these were 4x4's, you would want the suspension to move more freely right? I cant see it being anything but a bonus here. I went with the blueprinted uppers, he takes quality arms apart (not the cheap Ebay arms) and inspects & reassembles them correctly and welds the shaft nuts in place to prevent movement. From what I hear the arms off the shelf are often located incorrectly and the cost of his basic arms are not that much higher than they are at NAPA.
His lowers offer bearings and bracing if you think you need it.
The real question is will you ever out drive these parts in the real world? Will you drive the car or just show it off? Sure coil overs can be great on a race car or show car, but once you have the ride height adjusted they tend to get dirty and get ignored on a driver car.
I will need to figure out my rear suspension choices yet...
Thank you for the reply, I appreciate you taking your time to share your expertise. I've done a quick rough-draft run through of the parts you mentioned.
Unisteer Rack&Pinion $1050
OTR Uppers $570
OTR Roller Perches $200
OTR Lowers $260
Coil Springs $120
Air Shocks $100
Spindles $170
Disc Conversion $500
Total so far $2970 no tax, no shipping
That's where I get a little uncertain, that would be a very nice suspension and brake system, but for not much more I can get a setup that's new in the box, ready to be installed with every little thing I need, and it's a modern, 21st century system. As you said, may not make that much of a difference for a typical driver, but considering the significant difference in technology vs the lesser difference in cost, I'm still somewhat on the fence.
Is there anyone who has driven a couple different cars with different suspensions who can say what the practical difference in the cars is? Does anyone know where I can find some reviews of systems like the Fat Man suspension, Global West, or RRS system? Just wanna know what's worth it before I decide.
also just want to note that I'm primarily focused on the front end right now, rear is a project for after the car is on the road.
Thanks again!
Unisteer Rack&Pinion $1050
OTR Uppers $570
OTR Roller Perches $200
OTR Lowers $260
Coil Springs $120
Air Shocks $100
Spindles $170
Disc Conversion $500
Total so far $2970 no tax, no shipping
That's where I get a little uncertain, that would be a very nice suspension and brake system, but for not much more I can get a setup that's new in the box, ready to be installed with every little thing I need, and it's a modern, 21st century system. As you said, may not make that much of a difference for a typical driver, but considering the significant difference in technology vs the lesser difference in cost, I'm still somewhat on the fence.
Is there anyone who has driven a couple different cars with different suspensions who can say what the practical difference in the cars is? Does anyone know where I can find some reviews of systems like the Fat Man suspension, Global West, or RRS system? Just wanna know what's worth it before I decide.
also just want to note that I'm primarily focused on the front end right now, rear is a project for after the car is on the road.
Thanks again!
JMitchell,
You've made the first right step to having a well handling car which is to ask questions and do research before spending any money. To that end, I would spend $50 and buy two very informative books:
How to Make Your Car Handle - Fred Puhn
Chassis Engineering - Herb Adams
These two books will help you understand the basics of what really makes a car handle well - some of which is not intuitive, and very, very little of which you'll be able to find on the web. Read and re-read them until you understand them inside and out.
IMHO you don't need to spend much money at all to get your car to handle better than 99% of what's on the road, with a very nice ride quality. My thoughts:
1. Shelby Drop - 1", no more
2. Stock rebuild suspension bits - upper and lower A-arms, tie-rod ends, etc.
3. Stock rate front springs cut to get the front of the car as low as possible without bottoming out, tires rubbing, or headers dragging. 1" is a good place to start.
3. Stock rate rear springs, dropped to match the front.
4. 1.5" front sway bar. Hollow if your funds allow it.
5. 7/8" ADJUSTABLE rear sway bar. (This is a must)
6. Street/Performance alignment
7. Quality shocks
You will need to adjust the rear bar to get your car to handle neutrally, which you will have learned about in the reading mentioned above.
Then, go have fun on some twisty mountain roads!
Good Luck....
You've made the first right step to having a well handling car which is to ask questions and do research before spending any money. To that end, I would spend $50 and buy two very informative books:
How to Make Your Car Handle - Fred Puhn
Chassis Engineering - Herb Adams
These two books will help you understand the basics of what really makes a car handle well - some of which is not intuitive, and very, very little of which you'll be able to find on the web. Read and re-read them until you understand them inside and out.
IMHO you don't need to spend much money at all to get your car to handle better than 99% of what's on the road, with a very nice ride quality. My thoughts:
1. Shelby Drop - 1", no more
2. Stock rebuild suspension bits - upper and lower A-arms, tie-rod ends, etc.
3. Stock rate front springs cut to get the front of the car as low as possible without bottoming out, tires rubbing, or headers dragging. 1" is a good place to start.
3. Stock rate rear springs, dropped to match the front.
4. 1.5" front sway bar. Hollow if your funds allow it.
5. 7/8" ADJUSTABLE rear sway bar. (This is a must)
6. Street/Performance alignment
7. Quality shocks
You will need to adjust the rear bar to get your car to handle neutrally, which you will have learned about in the reading mentioned above.
Then, go have fun on some twisty mountain roads!
Good Luck....
what suspension modifications you do depends on what you want from the car. it sounds like what you want is a good handling suspension with a decent ride. given that assumption here is what i suggest;
a good stock rebuild with these changes
1: OTR roller bearing spring perches
2: modified lower arms that have a reinforcement plate and a roller bearing installed, OTR can help you with that also
3: adjustable strut rods with a spherical bearing instead of the rubber bushings that came stock.
4: a 480lb/in or 540lb/in front spring that is one inch shorter than stock
5: the arning/shelby drop
6: a one inch front sway bar and a 3/4 rear sway bar
7: 4 1/2 rear leaf springs rated at 200lb/in
8: subframe connectors
9: a good set of shocks, i like KYB gas adjust some like the KYB gr2, still others like the koni's.
10: top everything off with an export brace and monte carlo bar.
a good stock rebuild with these changes
1: OTR roller bearing spring perches
2: modified lower arms that have a reinforcement plate and a roller bearing installed, OTR can help you with that also
3: adjustable strut rods with a spherical bearing instead of the rubber bushings that came stock.
4: a 480lb/in or 540lb/in front spring that is one inch shorter than stock
5: the arning/shelby drop
6: a one inch front sway bar and a 3/4 rear sway bar
7: 4 1/2 rear leaf springs rated at 200lb/in
8: subframe connectors
9: a good set of shocks, i like KYB gas adjust some like the KYB gr2, still others like the koni's.
10: top everything off with an export brace and monte carlo bar.
Summit has the manual Unisteer for less money. I would never use air shocks, the top mounting point is not designed for them and air shocks themselves just aren't that great.
The RSS system will cost you over 3k with really basic brakes, and after asking over at Protouring.com I found that struts are not really all that.
I came to the conclusion that if I were going to spend real money I would not do the MII system and would go with the set-up that mounts the coil over to the lower control arm, much of the competition is just a tweak to the existing geometry.
My lottery kit would be the TCP, but dont forget that you would still need a sway bar and brakes! $$ I cant have 5-6k in the front end of a car that will still only be worth around 15k.
Far and away the best thing I did to my suspension was a set of Konis. Set them for whatever you want - handling or ride.
IMO for a decent ride don't lower the car to the ground with low profile tires. You will end up with a go cart and "ride" is a thing of the past. The tires are a big part of the ride. Lower it some and then make up for it with Konis.
DO NOT put on KYB gas-a-justs - especially on the back. Unless you want to seriously sacrifice ride quality in order to gain handling. They will beat you to pieces on bumps.
IMO for a decent ride don't lower the car to the ground with low profile tires. You will end up with a go cart and "ride" is a thing of the past. The tires are a big part of the ride. Lower it some and then make up for it with Konis.
DO NOT put on KYB gas-a-justs - especially on the back. Unless you want to seriously sacrifice ride quality in order to gain handling. They will beat you to pieces on bumps.
jackson0215
Member
- Dec 10, 2009
- 101
- 3
- 19
I think you can achieve what you are looking for without spending $3k on coil overs and rack and pinion. Save yourself some cash and upgrade the strut rods and shocks add the sway bars and the one piece export brace. Torque boxes on both sides will also help stiffen things up. The Shelby drop also helps but if you are not comfortable with the set up of the template make sure you get someone to do it, you only have one shot and if they are wrong that means replacing the shock tower and tat is not a fun task.
JonK
Member
I have spoken with John at ORP a few times while picking my suspension parts and have read quite a few of his posts on many boards. For your stated use much of what you have picked for pricing is way overboard for a street/fun/sporty car. John will even tell you if you contact him, he doesn't push you to buy his parts but advises you what parts to pick (even if not his) to get to your desired end result/use.
Unisteer Rack&Pinion $1050 - can't advise Y/N still using improved stock and happy with it.
OTR Uppers $570 - overkill unless a track only car - get the ORP prepped standard UCA - improved and you'll never have to replace them again or worry about the shaft nuts unscrewing $199/pr.
OTR Roller Perches $200 - Yes worth it, can find them on group/special buys for $175
OTR Lowers $260 - Overkill for a street car, get MOOG LCA from Virginia Classic mustangs for $100/pr., cheaper than some of the repops and quality, a tip from John at ORP.
Coil Springs $120 - based on your ht. (1" drop, etc.) and stiffness wanted (550-620 common).
Air Shocks $100 - as mentioned - don't - they'll eventually punch through the rear floor mount, it's not desinged to hold the wt. of the car. Get KYB's (I am happy with the GR-2 <$100/4, until I can afford Koni's or Bilsteins, etc.) Also you said you were only doing front for now but added these rear shocks into price for front?
Spindles $170 - stock? are ok
Disc Conversion $500 - many options here depending on wheel diameter/backspace.
Just changing out the UCA, LCA, saving $25 on the roller perches would shave $605 off your quote to $2365, if you don't need to buy spindles, change your mind on the R&P or don't need spindles you could easily be under $2000 to do all this. Focus on must haves and wants, again don't get caught up in 'gotta have the most expensive cause it's the best' it's like putting 93 octane into a car with 8:1 compression, a waste of money as it'll never be used/needed.
Short of the R&P change and disc brakes I did all of this for <$1000 and am happy with the results for a fun street car that may see different track cond. - 11/8, 1/4mi., opentrack, autoX
Jon
