Suspension work over

[bradleyem]

Ok, so I scored a new set of FRPP lowering springs for my '05 GT today for $100 (Thanks Zack). Now I have 2 questions:

1 - What is the minimum that I must do to install these? Do I need to replace the shocks, or can I throw them on as is? I do plan on replacing the spring isolators with the improved GT500 isolators...does anyone have a part # for these? (I realize that I'll need to get an alignment)

2- What would you all recommend as additional upgrades? I'd like to do a complete suspension workover. The wheel hop is driving me insane, and the clunks from the front end aren't too bad yet, but I do notice them when going over bumps.

So here is the plan:

Shocks - recommendations?

Better lower / adjustable upper control arms for the rear - recommendations (BMR?)

Pan Hard Bar

Possibly tubular control arms for the front

Anything else that you all can think of?

Thanks in advance for your help

 

[GreyDiesel]

Lowering springs are like crack. The first hit is always free. You get lowering springs for cheap, and then the suspension modding begins and soon enough your 2300 in the hole.

Strut Mounts.

Dampers. (go with FRPP dampers if you have FRPP springs, you may want some KONI Yellows or Bilsteins, but you'll have to dial those in to the correct setting)

Lowering springs are harder because they have to do the same amount of work in less distance. Consequently, if you stick with the same old dampers, you'll be under damped, and basically, you'll bounce around. You'll need stiffer dampers. You can get stiffer dampers made for your springs (good idea) or adjustable dampers which you'll have to mess with for months in order to find the best setting.

I just mention strut mounts because you have to take them off to install the spring, so if you have new ones at the time of install, bonus. Some people have had problems with the strut mounts. If they get twisted, they can come apart and cause noises.

You may also need an adjustable pan hard. I am not sure what the rear lowering of your FRPP springs are (they have two versions, one w/1" lowering and another with 1.5" lowering). You can probably get away without the panhard on the 1" lowering, but its going to be a problem for anything lower than that.

Camber bolt would also be good.

Adj. LCAs, yes, if you can afford it, add it to the list.

 

[garbledwords]

A complete suspension workover would consist of:
springs
shocks/structs
anti-sway bar
LCAs
relocation brackets
adjustable UCAs
adjustable panhard rod
chamber bolts / plates
upper strut mounts
bumpsteer kit

As I just mentioned on another thread here:
I put on the Steeda Ultralites and their non-adjustable shocks/struts last year and am very happy with them, along with the Eibach anit-sway bars front and back. I am getting the LCAs, relocation brackets, adjustable UCAs, and adjustable panhard rod put on next week: these are all BMR stuff. You may need the camber bolts depending one how much the cars gets lowered. I didn't.

For just some quick handling improvements and lowering, on a daily driver that you don't race much, you don't really need the other stuff. I finally decided to finish up the suspension to correct the rear suspension geometry and to get some faster times at the drag strip. Total cost of all of the above is around $2.3k for me. That includes the installation of the second set of stuff (I installed the springs/dampers/sway bars myself) and having the relocation brackets welded on by a maintenance shop. I haven't noticed any bumpsteer problems, so not doing that.

The best source of information on S197 suspension that I have found is at Guide to Properly Lowering your S197.

 

[bradleyem]

Thanks for the info guys.............

So, here is my plan right now.

Get FRPP dampers (shocks/struts) to add to my springs. It seems as if springs/dampers that are engineered as a kit work best together. I thought about using adjustibles, but I dont really need the adjustibility, or the hassle of screwing with them.

I'll also do Steeda caster/camber plates and camber bolts at the same time since the OEM strut mounts cause issues when lowered, and even the updated/GT500 mounts don't always fix the problem.

I'll probably also do FRPP sway bars, and strut tower brace, and basically have the complete FRPP handling package.

The next phase will be the rear:

BMR billet lower control arms

BMR LCA relocation brackets

BMR adjustible upper control arm and mount

BMR adjustible panhard bar & panhard bar brace

BMR panhard bar relocation bracket


Then I'll do the front:

BMR Tubular control arms

Possibly BMR tubular K Member depending on how hardcore i want to go with it.

I would also like to do a watts link eventually.....these really seem to help with wheel hop.

My head is spinning as I add up the costs of all of this ....thats why I wasn't planning on doing suspension work right away, but like GreyDiesel said, its like crack....now I have my cheap springs, and I can't wait to get going on it.

 

[bradleyem]

Well, after having my springs sitting in my garage laughing at me (because I haven't put them on yet) and after all of the doom and gloom talk about rubbing, scraping, etc., etc. I decided to install them with everything else being stock just to see how low my car would be and make sure that I liked them before going out and spending another $800 or more on dampers and castor/camber plates.

Well, the install was INCREDIBLY easy.....it took me just under 3 hours start to finish by myself. I did have spring compressors already, and I had 2 floor jacks and an electric impact wrench (the single best tool purchase that I have ever made).

The end result was that even with FRPP 1.5" lowering springs, it isn't as low as I thought it would be, although the springs will probably settle some. There is still some tire gap in the wheel wells, especially in the rear, and the rear is still a bit higher than I was hoping.

But, as far as performance goes, even with stock dampers, they are MUCH better than stock. The rear has better traction, and the front doesn't dive nearly as badly. I can feel that the stock dampers are at their limits, and they probably were getting worn anyway, since they are almost 5 years old.

I'll be ordering new dampers and castor/camber plates as soon as I can afford to, and the install was so easy that it was well worth installing them with the stock stuff as a test. I do know that I'll have to stay WAY clear of parking blocks and curbs from now on.........

 

[GreyDiesel]

cool

I was surprised too. Lowering springs on a Mustang seem to bring it down to a "normal" height, rather than drop it too low. I think the H&R springs are the only ones that really drop it down to what you might would call a lowered car.

 

[Wind-Farmer]

I'll be ordering new dampers and castor/camber plates as soon as I can afford to

This means your BMR list might not come right away then huh

 

[bradleyem]

cool

I was surprised too. Lowering springs on a Mustang seem to bring it down to a "normal" height, rather than drop it too low. I think the H&R springs are the only ones that really drop it down to what you might would call a lowered car.

Yeah, but it leaves room for bigger rims & tires too, which I was worried about. I really like the look of KoolDawg's setup, and if I go that route, I'll need to leave a little room for those fat rears By the pics, it looks like you could barely put a piece of paper between kooldawgs tires and the fenderwells. Also, a little rake looks good, especially with fats & skinnies.

 

[bradleyem]

This means your BMR list might not come right away then huh

Not right away...but it WILL come

Now that the mod bug has bitten, I'll have to get a second job to support my habit

I'm also hearing alot of people who really like the J&M stuff too, so I'll be taking a closer look at that too......

 

[walter]

I love my j&m lca's the spherical bushings are just right for road racing applications. I'll be getting the matching uca soon.

Not right away...but it WILL come

Now that the mod bug has bitten, I'll have to get a second job to support my habit

I'm also hearing alot of people who really like the J&M stuff too, so I'll be taking a closer look at that too......

Posted via Mobile Device

 

[bradleyem]

I love my j&m lca's the spherical bushings are just right for road racing applications. I'll be getting the matching uca soon.

Any noticible difference in noise? Not that it matters much to me, plus my exhaust does a pretty good job of drowning out unwanted noise anyway

 

[walter]

None at all. They are a three piece poly spherical unit not heim joints. Coolest thing ever for street driven cars.

Any noticible difference in noise? Not that it matters much to me, plus my exhaust does a pretty good job of drowning out unwanted noise anyway

Posted via Mobile Device

 

[bradleyem]

None at all. They are a three piece poly spherical unit not heim joints. Coolest thing ever for street driven cars.





Posted via Mobile Device

Cool, thanks Walter.

They look like some real quality pieces, and the prices are pretty good too.

Which LCAs do you have?

I don't know if adjustible LCA's are needed, especially on a mostly d/d. But an adjustible upper would definately be a good idea.

 

[walter]

I have their plain jane poly bushing type not the new competition ones. Those came after later, If I was to do it over I'd get those.

 

[blbrchnk]

I love my j&m lca's the spherical bushings are just right for road racing applications. I'll be getting the matching uca soon.





Posted via Mobile Device

x2 on the J&M. They make some awesome stuff. I have their panhard bar, and LCAs. I have the Vogtland springs they sell as well even though I know they don't make them. Soon I will be getting their UCA because I am tired of the squeaking noise the stock mount makes on mine.

 

[walter]

x2 on the J&M. They make some awesome stuff. I have their panhard bar, and LCAs. I have the Vogtland springs they sell as well even though I know they don't make them. Soon I will be getting their UCA because I am tired of the squeaking noise the stock mount makes on mine.

You going the adjustable route with your UCA? I was thinking about going non adjustable since the Roush told me their suspension kit does not alter the pinion angle. Trying to eliminate another stress point from the adjustable part.

 

[darien87]

Well, the install was INCREDIBLY easy.....it took me just under 3 hours start to finish by myself. I did have spring compressors already, and I had 2 floor jacks and an electric impact wrench (the single best tool purchase that I have ever made).

The end result was that even with FRPP 1.5" lowering springs, it isn't as low as I thought it would be, although the springs will probably settle some. There is still some tire gap in the wheel wells, especially in the rear, and the rear is still a bit higher than I was hoping.

Don't worry, it will settle down some. I felt the same after installing my FRPP springs. But then a couple of months later, I was walking up to my car and thought to myself, "Whoa, my car looks low now."

 

[whyask]

i have the H&R SS with the 2" drop and DAMN the car is low ! I love the look ! But it has its draw backs... for going that low i needed to get LCA's, Adj. panhard bar, upper control arm, relocation brackets and new shocks and struts ! car drives like a lotus but it was not cheap ! Springs were an easy install as were the panhard bar and LCA... good luck ! Best bet is do one major system in the car at a time..I.E Engine, Brakes, Sus, Exterior, Interior...

 

[forensicsteve]

Don't lower, if you plan on doing a lot of strip racing

 

[bradleyem]

Don't worry, it will settle down some. I felt the same after installing my FRPP springs. But then a couple of months later, I was walking up to my car and thought to myself, "Whoa, my car looks low now."

Yeah, I'm actually glad that it didn't turn out super low right away. That way I'll still have room for settling and to play with different wheel/tire combos.

i have the H&R SS with the 2" drop and DAMN the car is low ! I love the look ! But it has its draw backs... for going that low i needed to get LCA's, Adj. panhard bar, upper control arm, relocation brackets and new shocks and struts ! car drives like a lotus but it was not cheap ! Springs were an easy install as were the panhard bar and LCA... good luck ! Best bet is do one major system in the car at a time..I.E Engine, Brakes, Sus, Exterior, Interior...

Wow......I thought that 1.5" was about the biggest drop that you could get for these cars. 2" would definately not be practical for me, since I park in alot of parking garages with steep inclines, and have to go over alot of speed bumps As far as the other upgrades, I figure that to get rid of the wheel hop I'll end up doing them anyway....I hadn't planned on doing anything with the suspension for awhile, but I got the springs cheap, so like GreyDiesel said, I got my first hit of crack for free, and now I'm hooked....lol
I've always been a more go than show kind of guy, so functional performance mods are far more important than looks. I try to do a ton of research on what works and what doesn't so that I can plan my mods to give me the most bang for my buck....

Don't lower, if you plan on doing a lot of strip racing

I plan on taking it to the strip occasionally, but I'ts still going to be a D/D more than anything. At some point I'd like to get another fox body and build a killer N/A 351W stroker just for the strip. F/I is fun, but there's no replacement for displacement, and the sound of a built Windsor is just awesome

I am curious though as to what the disadvantage is to lowering for the drag strip? Theoretically, as long as you keep proper suspension geometry, a lower roll center would be an advantage, wouldn't it?