swaybars make you lose traction?

[Konrad]

Everyone thinks less body-roll = better cornering but is that really the case? I've been reading about swaybars because most people think that a stiffer swaybar and therefore less body-roll makes for better cornering.

It seems like it's the reverse. I've been reading that stiffer sway bars do of course prevent body roll but they actually reduce lateral traction! If you put a stiff enough swaybar on, the inside tire can actually lift off the ground.

Apparently the way to make a car oversteer more, is to put a stiffer swaybar on the back to reduce traction back there, which makes the ass end kick out easier. The way to increase understeer is to make the front sway bar stiffer and reduce traction there, making the car plow in turns.

read this and let me know what you guys think.
Mustang Anti-sway Bars

I want my car to be level in corners but it sounds stupid to reduce cornering grip to for it to look good!

Opinions please.

 

[jpplaw]

Its called losing "side-bite". Stiff springs and stiff swaybars kill the tires' side-bite. Side-bite is the ability of the tire to resist sliding sideways. Forward-bite is the ability of the tire to resist spinning in place.

Think about it - a swaybar is just a helper spring that, assuming no pre-load, mostly becomes operative only when cornering. Too stiff of a spring rate alone will kill side-bite and tend make the car 4 wheel slide to the outside of the corner. Hard cornering with too stiff springs and/or a too big (stiff) swaybar overpowers the tire's ability to absorb the load. Some tires are sticky, but they are not that sticky. A tire's sidewall figures into the overall spring rate as well.

Follow an old circle track secret: spring it as soft as you can go for acceleration purposes (increases forward-bite) and the straights (because of bumps and such), and let the swaybars take care of the corners. It works, did it for years. Obviously, this doesn't apply to drag only cars.

 

[SpartaPerformance]

That's why if you notice that every sway bar kit for S107's for example are the same diameter and tensile strength, manufacturers do testing to see what is a good blend of anti lateral roll vs traction loss

 

[streethorse]

Its called losing "side-bite". Stiff springs and stiff swaybars kill the tires' side-bite. Side-bite is the ability of the tire to resist sliding sideways. Forward-bite is the ability of the tire to resist spinning in place.

Think about it - a swaybar is just a helper spring that, assuming no pre-load, mostly becomes operative only when cornering. Too stiff of a spring rate alone will kill side-bite and tend make the car 4 wheel slide to the outside of the corner. Hard cornering with too stiff springs and/or a too big (stiff) swaybar overpowers the tire's ability to absorb the load. Some tires are sticky, but they are not that sticky. A tire's sidewall figures into the overall spring rate as well.

Follow an old circle track secret: spring it as soft as you can go for acceleration purposes (increases forward-bite) and the straights (because of bumps and such), and let the swaybars take care of the corners. It works, did it for years. Obviously, this doesn't apply to drag only cars.

Thanks, excellent post! I never thought of "side bite" before but i see what your sayin.

 

[Konrad]

That's why if you notice that every sway bar kit for S107's for example are the same diameter and tensile strength, manufacturers do testing to see what is a good blend of anti lateral roll vs traction loss

How can any blend of "traction loss" be good?

Does this mean that all this stuff with low profile tires, stiff suspension, and flat cornering is sort of all ****?

 

[StreetsideStig]

^No. Any amount of body roll will raise your center of gravity, which will pull a car out in the corners. The balance Sparta mentioned is between keeping your center low and keeping a maximum side bite.

 

[Konrad]

How do you increase side bite and also keep flat cornering? Is tires the best way? negative camber?

 

[Konrad]

I've got a specific reason I was asking this actually. I noticed my stock swaybar endlink bushings seemed worn and when I found out what a new set of links cost at the dealer, I figured I'd upgrade to a better set of links with poly bushings.
I ordered the BMR links, but read it wrong. It said they would fit any swaybar that's 22 mm. I didn't know what size mine was (its 20) so in my head I just read "any swaybar". I know how dumb that sounds but anyway I have these links and they of course don't fit at all.
I was thinking of just ordering a new swaybar to go with the links but not if it was going to reduce traction of cause me to spin out too easily.

My car has eibach pro kit springs and shocks/struts to go with it. Would it be ok to upgrade only the rear swaybar?
I'd like my car to perform as well as possible but it won't see heavy track use soon, it's currently a daily driver.

 

[jpplaw]

Going to a 22mm shouldn't cause the car to get too loose. I have the stock front bar and a 26mm (1") rear on mine to offset the added supercharger weight in the front and she isn't loose at all. Handles pretty neutral.