T5 gurus please read - whining sound from trans

mrmustangman357 · Jun 11, 2008

So, I just finished installing a used but in good shape t5 into my 66 mustang. when I take off in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, it makes a whining sound like I have a supercharger. I mean loud like I have a procharger sc on it. What can cause this whining sound?

-when I press the clutch in it goes away, even at speed
-the sound gets louder not with speed but with engine rpm (i.e. 2000 rpm in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd all sound alike)
-I haven't heard anything with 4th and 5th maybe because I couldn't get enough rpm for the whining to occur.

Backlash in the input shaft? Backlash in the countershaft? I remember checking the b/l in the countershaft and it was .008 (spec is .005 max condition)

wildstang90 · Jun 11, 2008

I had a bad thowout bearing that sounded like that.

Mustang5L5 · Jun 11, 2008

Is it loudest in 1st and Reverse, and gets quieter in 2nd and 3rd and silent in 4th gear?

How is the fluid level?

Goldcuffs · Jun 11, 2008

Mine does the same thing. It's not a T/O bearing or fluid level in mine. My noise is super sensitive to any kind of throttle also.Take a look at this picture on this site,it might give you a better understanding of the inside of your trans. In my opinion it's an internal bearing or gear. Mine has actually gotten a little quieter the more I drive it. I thought I would try some synthetic to see if it helps more.

http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/Trans-101.htm

91notchbk · Jun 12, 2008

Is the noise present while the vehicle is stopped idling in neutral with the clutch engaged and throttle at 2000rpms?

It is odd that the noise is gone in fifth as well. Drive it to speed and see if the noise is present in fourth and fifth. This is important to know to determine the root cause..

2000xp8 · Jun 12, 2008

Generally whining is pretty bad. IMO, most cases involve more work than a T5 is worth.
Figure if it grinds or pops out of gear, a rebuild with parts and labor is about $550 give or take a few bucks.
Nothing in the small parts rebuild kit is going to fix a whine more than likely.
So now you get into replacing major components of the trans, which are generally very expensive.
I had a trans that was whining, hanlon quoted me $850 to fix it.
So i got a $100 trans that was popping out of gear, and had it repaired, total was $600 (including the trans).

mrmustangman357 · Jun 12, 2008

I ran it on jackstands. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd all whine, 4th and 5th are silent, even with engine rpm. push the clutch in, whining goes away, even if the wheels are still spinning. I puled the trans, the fluid looks like it has brass dust in it (WTF?) but really small particulate matter. I put a dial indicator on the output shaft and zeroed it out, then pushed in the input shaft and got .002 (within spec). At that point, I left it. What do you think can be the cause?

2000xp8 · Jun 12, 2008

Just call hanlon motosports, they will tell you what's wrong and how much to fix more than likely over the phone.
I'd say no matter what the trans has to come out of the car, and i'd also say that driving will more than likely make the problem worse.

My experience with a whining trans was catastrophic, but i kept driving it like an idiot. Eventually, all i had left that worked was 4th gear.

NIKwoaC · Jun 12, 2008

Well, since 4th gear is "direct drive" (where the input and output shafts lock together), and 5th gear is outside of the main box, I'd say you have a worn/damaged gear issue on the counter shaft somewhere, or misalignment of shafts (caused by failed bearings and such). When the clutch is in, the gears don’t have really any stress on them, and if the wheels are rotating with the clutch in, the gears really are contacting on the BACK side of the teeth (like downshifting), where you may not have any damage. Try road testing and downshifting (to slow down, not to accelerate)) in those gears. Still getting noise?

If you have damaged gears, you're better off getting another entire transmission.

Mustang5L5 · Jun 12, 2008

mrmustangman357 said:
I ran it on jackstands. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd all whine, 4th and 5th are silent, even with engine rpm. push the clutch in, whining goes away, even if the wheels are still spinning. I puled the trans, the fluid looks like it has brass dust in it (WTF?) but really small particulate matter. I put a dial indicator on the output shaft and zeroed it out, then pushed in the input shaft and got .002 (within spec). At that point, I left it. What do you think can be the cause?

Sounds like the mainshaft snout is scored where the 15 roller bearings from the input shaft ride on it.

Typically this happens when the trans is run with low fluid as these bearings starve for fluid.

Reason it's silent in 4th is becausee the input and mainshaft are spinning 1:1.

You need a new mainshaft..or the shaft needs to be re-machnined to accept a '93 Cobra pocket-bearing type of bearing along with a '93 Cobra input shaft.

Hanlon can do this, or you can try to locate a new mainshaft (i bought one for $60 for the same problem). You will also need new roller bearings.

Of course, you'll have to inspect first to confirm.

2000xp8 · Jun 12, 2008

Mustang5L5 said:
Reason it's silent in 4th is becausee the input and mainshaft are spinning 1:1.

yup

mrmustangman357 · Jun 12, 2008

thanks guys. I'll check out the input bearings to see for scoring or missing rollers. the 4th and 5th advice makes sense why it wouldn't whine. I will update tomorrow to see what is going on

mrmustangman357 · Jun 12, 2008

trans is all apart. i cant find anything that is wrong. the countershaft has .005 backlash. I will set it to .001 and give it new bearings. I guess the 66 won't make power tour this year that now makes 3 yrs in a row

Mustang5L5 · Jun 12, 2008

Inspect the rollers on ALL the bearings. Check all the races and needle bearings under the gears.

No scoring on the tip of the mainshaft at all?

mrmustangman357 · Jun 14, 2008

no scoring whatsoever on the mainshaft. I'll check the ID of the input shaft. roller bearings look fine. Just for piece of mind, I will swap in new bearings and input bearing. I'll button her up today and see what it does.

mrmustangman357 · Jun 15, 2008

Pulled her apart. The trans was missing the spacer between the input shaft and mainshaft (it must have been misplaced by previous owner doing the rebuild). no broken parts. I rechecked the endplay on input and countershaft and added .004 to each to bring it to the tighter range of play. I put it in the car and with open headers can't hear the whine. I think I got it. Thanks guys for pointing me in the direction of the input shaft so I would know where to look.

v8only · Jun 16, 2008

which spacer are you referring to??? are you talking about the piece that goes under that round flat bearing?? that's what I suspect you had missing. If it's the spacer in front of it, that's just for oiling purposes.

anyhow, to the above poster who said whining trannies are too expensive to fix, that's bad advice. don't give it unless you've rebuilt t5's before.

a whine can be very easy to fix. Often it's an old bearing going out.....a bearing kit and a common rebuild kit will get those whines fixed 99.9% of the time.

Mustang5L5 · Jun 16, 2008

You know the weird thing. I am working on a T-5 right now and am missing that spacer. I am neat when i disassemble the trans and doubt i misplaced it, but right now as i'm trying to put it all back together...the spacer is MIA. I cannot remember if there was one to begin with.

I find it odd though that it's the 1 part i am missing in the entire trans. I need to track one down.

But i wonder if it was omited from some trans?

v8only · Jun 16, 2008

are you talking about the flat one that the bearing rides on, or the oiling spacer???

either one comes in the t5 small parts kit, but I may have extras

as well, a tip to all those rebuilding a t5, the hanlon kit comes with more stuff than you'd ever need. stuff like keys and springs, and the sycro blocker rings are non wear items. I pay $155 locally for a rebuild kit, and that consists of new syncros, bearings, and small parts, (washers, shims, clips) etc etc.

no reason to pay that extra $100 on stuff that's all re useable. tear down your t5 first, inspect the blocker rings for wear, inspect the keys for wear, if you're all good on both areas, save the $100.

typical full hanlon kit and astro kit is near or at or over $250 now.

mrmustangman357 · Jun 16, 2008

well, i put it back together and stil is whining. I do realize it is making the noise in all gears, but 1st through third is most pronounced. it was that small oil spacer, not the one that flat bearing rides on. could the gears be worn to the point they are causing backlash whine? I have no idea. I tried moving the shifter but can't get it to go away. It is a hurst super comp shifter but I run the same in my fox body and no whine this loud. It sounds like it has a procharger on it no joke.

when moving with clutch disengaged, no noise. with load and clutch engaged, the whine comes on. wtf?

T5 gurus please read - whining sound from trans

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