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  • 1965 - 1973 Classic Mustangs -General/Talk-

The ford 377

  • Thread starter Thread starter strange65
  • Start date Start date Mar 7, 2007
S

strange65

New Member
Dec 28, 2005
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Mar 7, 2007
#1
  • Mar 7, 2007
  • #1
Story started here: http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=688891
Its going to take awhile to tell this story. So for those who want to stick it out.
It will be a daily till its done.
I loved the 65-66 coupe since the first day I seen them. I been responsible for sending more then my fair share of them to the scrap yard after beating all the life out of them.
Back in the 70's there where plenty around and you could have a low mileage one in excellant condition for about 550.00 ( no one I knew cared about codes such as C, A ,K) in my neck of the wood's.
The street version of it's famous cousin was a dog or a all show, no go pony, and the owner's picked thier race's with care. You could build a coupe faster for less.
(This four cylinder outran it in 1986 in a magazine test:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelby_GLHS)
Keep in mind back then Ford race parts were expensive (you could get anything for a chevy) For a Ford you had a choice of valve covers, intake manifolds, 4v carb's, anything else was special order.
Almost anything you did to a 289, beyond a 4v carb would cause it to self destruct.
K code heads were rare and the the weakness was the pressed in stud's on the regular head's.
We did not have the internet , you got your news from T.V. , radio and the magazine of your choice.
I rarely watched T.V. , or listened to the radio and sure as hell was not going to spend my money or time reading about someone's else car.
The first time I heard that a 289 powered a world champion race car I was like

I loved it, after all my mustang had a 289 and I had bragging right's, but thats all I had.
I also picked my races with care.
Chevy's with a 283, 307 were fair game. Anything with a 327 - I played deaf and dumb.
No one raced the lowly Dodge's (my apology's to the dodge lover's).
The most I could do to a 289 was add the 4 barrel carb, header's and a dual point distributor.
I had learned a very expensive lesson, do not mess with the cam without the Hipo head's.
This all changed in the seventy's, on a trip to Nogales, Arizona my current tired 289 was on its last leg's.
The car was smoking, it needed a ring job and I knew it was not going to make it back to Phoenix.
My cousin's told me of a mustang across the border in Nogales, Sonora that was t-boned and I could have it for next to nothing. best of all it was a race car and very fast.
They actually called it a Trans-Am. To me back the a Trans-Am was a firebird made by pontiac usually with over 400 hundred cube's and not a car I wanted to race or own.
We set out to look at this "trans-am" I was sure it would be a wasted trip but secretly hoping it would be something with a 260-289.
The trans-am looked like a 67 mustang that someone had done a homemade job of customizing unlike any other 67 mustang coupe I had ever seen.
My apology's to the 67 mustang lover's (after all the car was t-boned), but a few minutes later we struck a deal the 67 mustang was mine . I told the owner he could keep the body,
after I pulled everything I needed for my 65.
I got a 289 with funny looking valve cover's, headers with cut -off pipes and cherry bomb muffler's attatched , a scattershield bell housing with a 4 speed toploader, the t-bird light's off the rear of the car (I was to dumb and young then to take the disk brake's, and the rear end ).
We switched everything over to the 65 and 2 day's later I was on my way back to Phoenix.
(rest to follow)
 

StangDreamin'

Founding Member
Aug 10, 2002
583
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16
2nd Ocotillo bush east of the Colorado River; Sout
Mar 7, 2007
#2
  • Mar 7, 2007
  • #2
Having read the discourse on the previous thread; I'm watching this one closely
 
B

bnickel

Founding Member
Aug 21, 2002
5,640
3
77
lubbock, texas
Mar 8, 2007
#3
  • Mar 8, 2007
  • #3
still waiting for the rest. was it a Trans Am race car or a Shelby? T-Bird taillights on a T/A racer? doubt it, Shelby coupe? again, doubt it unless of course you found 'Lil Red. more than likely it was a 68 California Special.
 

1320stang

Founding Member
Nov 13, 1998
4,329
23
89
Edmond, Oklahoma
Mar 9, 2007
#4
  • Mar 9, 2007
  • #4
D.Hearne said:
I know Ford did a lot of one-off stuff back in the 60's and early 70's, so I wouldn't bet money on anything.
Click to expand...

I was at Rick Kirk's shop and saw a 18 bolt Cleveland head and a magnesium Tunnel Wedge for a FE. I've heard stories about things that came out of Ford's 'X' garage in the 60's.....
 
S

strange65

New Member
Dec 28, 2005
71
0
0
Mar 9, 2007
#5
  • Mar 9, 2007
  • #5
Was going to wait till I could tell the whole story, but wont keep you waiting since I will be busy this weekend.
This will solve 2 myth's, the mexican block one and the 289 in the world champion's car ones.
Someone or several other's before or after me found one of these blocks and created the mexican block is stronger myth.
They were not 289/302's.
They were 377 blocks that resembled a 289/302 till taken apart-virtually identical.
They were good for 450-550 h.p. depending on the configuration used, maybe more. You might say so what? Thats nothing today!
It was back then.
Mine ran strong for several year's like 5-6 years.
I abused the heck out of it too.
While my friends were switching out motors I was switiching out mustang body's.
The car's were beat to hell, the 65-66 was never designed for that much punishment.
Suspension was the worse, at 120 mph the car's would shake like they were going to fall apart. Everytime I went through that, I would get out of the car shaking just as bad.
The brakes were worse I needed more car lenght braking room then I needed to win the race.
No ebay back then so I couldnt pick up all the suspension goodie's you younger guys take for granted.
Anyway when it came time to rebuild the engine, I realized once it was torn down that it was not a 289,302,351W, 351C and it was not a boat anchor 390.
I did not know what it was.
I took it to a friend that rebuild engines for some of the manzanita racers in South Phoenix and he was also stumped. he took some measurements, and best he could figure said it was like a 371, he might have said it was a 377 c.i. but I heard 371 and that what i thought it was all these years.
Here's your link to the 377 in the Mexican car's link.
http://www.darkhorseracing.net/south_of_the_boarder.htm
http://www.hammar.dyndns.org/~mexmust/articles/m88an79.htm

By the way the 67 mustang I bought was not one of the type of cars pictured in the link.
Fastbacks and convertibles were not allow into Mexico, as imports or to be build there so It was not an American one, beside's this was a coupe.
I did look the 67 coupe over and knew it was keeping secrets from me but I could not figure them out , I knew right after I tore the 377 apart what it was, or rather was told what I foolishly took the heart out off and was running on the street.
I have never mentioned the name that was on the side of the car to anyone.
Never seen it pictured anywhere and I searched for it many time's. That bit of info, will be important when I continue the story but it will verify what the car was.
If I told you I could run a 289 at 150 miles for straight 12 hours using 1960 technology you guy's would call
Keep that in mind, because I too heard that back in the 60's and my first thoughts were, you might have done it but it was not with a Ford 289.
Will try to post more this weekend.
 

StangDreamin'

Founding Member
Aug 10, 2002
583
0
16
2nd Ocotillo bush east of the Colorado River; Sout
Mar 9, 2007
#6
  • Mar 9, 2007
  • #6
Looking at those links reminded me that I have a magazine with one of those articles packed away in a box in one of the sheds out back. It also reminded me that (back then in '87) I looked at the pictures and "wondered" where Ford/LM got the idea for the "recessed" back glass on the 71-73 Mustang and Cougar. Yeah, I grew up in the early '70's and remember GM's Stingray's and El Camino's of the period; but did Ford really steal the idea from Chevy?

Looking yet again at the '73 Cougar in my carport (and thinking about the work yet-to-do on the 351C under the hood); I dove deep into conjecture about the "progeny" of your Shelby de Mexico experimental 377 block.

So, what do the heads look like?
 
S

strange65

New Member
Dec 28, 2005
71
0
0
Mar 10, 2007
#7
  • Mar 10, 2007
  • #7
The head's you seen plenty of time or heard about them, I did say there will be final proof so you will get picture's and anyone in the greater phoenix area will be welcome to come look at the proof.
I did not find " lil red" or any of the mustangs famous cousin's from ethier side of the border.
The name on the 67 meant nothing to me except that it was fitting for what it could make my 65-66's do.
For all I knew it might have won a billion race's, but without the internet I would have never known about it.
If you are thinking this story is about turning a 289 into a 377, I will tell you right now its not possible.
If you thought a 289 in anything will be faster then a 427. Build it and show me.
If you are going to tell me someone else built one -forget it,
I heard that story too.
I also seen the movie where a famous 68 mustang kept up with a charger.
I seen and drove both of those type's of car's and that movie is the only place where thats going to happen.
You seen it here and read it plenty of time's and heard it all your life.
"There is no subsitute for cubic inches !"
Like I said I am not mentioning any names, the old goat, money grubbing wh*re, cantankerous old b*stard or whatever you feel like calling him -is a lawsuit happy old fool.
I can out live him and tell my story then or I can get someone to write it as fiction and make some money.
So I will not argue about history with you.
Just give you the fact's , show you the proof and you judge it anyway you want.
I am hoping to tell this story, because I learned alot of secret's from that 67 coupe.
Some were simple and I figured them out right away, other's by accident, and now I know them all. I found one of the builder's.
 

StangDreamin'

Founding Member
Aug 10, 2002
583
0
16
2nd Ocotillo bush east of the Colorado River; Sout
Mar 10, 2007
#8
  • Mar 10, 2007
  • #8
Interesting.

In a previous post, you mentioned that the 377 blocks were "virtually identical" to the 289/302 block until taken apart. The same holds true for the World Products "Man O' War" blocks; and those guys have been built to some extreme displacements, one of their 9.5" deck blocks is built to 460 cid and sold in the Summti catalog. An 8.2" deck block is built to 375cid on the same page. Both are builds produced by World Prod, and marketed by Summit; two companies with legal teams and reputations that lend them credence with not just dedicated HP-junkies, but the general "Joe Handyman" public as well - reputations which, if well protected, will keep their registers full. They're not about to put out a doggie product if at all possible.

This leads me to believe that - even without the "Mexican Shelby" articles - your tale of reliable, streetable big inches (377) in a small Ford package is in fact very reasonable.

I'll be spending the day hauling rodeo arena panels from Yuma to Laughlin (and it's a one-day round trip)today; but will be looking for your further posts this evening.
 
B

bnickel

Founding Member
Aug 21, 2002
5,640
3
77
lubbock, texas
Mar 10, 2007
#9
  • Mar 10, 2007
  • #9
strange65 said:
The head's you seen plenty of time or heard about them, I did say there will be final proof so you will get picture's and anyone in the greater phoenix area will be welcome to come look at the proof.
I did not find " lil red" or any of the mustangs famous cousin's from ethier side of the border.
The name on the 67 meant nothing to me except that it was fitting for what it could make my 65-66's do.
For all I knew it might have won a billion race's, but without the internet I would have never known about it.
If you are thinking this story is about turning a 289 into a 377, I will tell you right now its not possible.
If you thought a 289 in anything will be faster then a 427. Build it and show me.
If you are going to tell me someone else built one -forget it,
I heard that story too.
I also seen the movie where a famous 68 mustang kept up with a charger.
I seen and drove both of those type's of car's and that movie is the only place where thats going to happen.
You seen it here and read it plenty of time's and heard it all your life.
"There is no subsitute for cubic inches !"
Like I said I am not mentioning any names, the old goat, money grubbing wh*re, cantankerous old b*stard or whatever you feel like calling him -is a lawsuit happy old fool.
I can out live him and tell my story then or I can get someone to write it as fiction and make some money.
So I will not argue about history with you.
Just give you the fact's , show you the proof and you judge it anyway you want.
I am hoping to tell this story, because I learned alot of secret's from that 67 coupe.
Some were simple and I figured them out right away, other's by accident, and now I know them all. I found one of the builder's.
Click to expand...


well then show us the proof. the way you're telling the story is not very believable, i'm not saying that you're lying by any means but the story telling makes you sound mis-informed
 

1320stang

Founding Member
Nov 13, 1998
4,329
23
89
Edmond, Oklahoma
Mar 10, 2007
#10
  • Mar 10, 2007
  • #10
Does your block have the XE on it? I know a guy that worked in Ford's X garage back in the 60's, very interesting to listen to, he might have some insight.
 

68stang351

Founding Member
May 16, 2002
850
9
39
Savoy TX
Mar 11, 2007
#11
  • Mar 11, 2007
  • #11
More please! This is interesting.
 

BDT 1967

Member
Jan 31, 2006
91
0
6
Wichita KS
Mar 12, 2007
#12
  • Mar 12, 2007
  • #12
Yea i have to know more. I have kicked myself many times over, because i didnt write the check before somebody else. (Most recently 1969 Mach 1 351 MINT $5,000 ) But in your story you actualy purchased the car and you gave the body back to him I would love to know more about this car.
 
G

Gud T.B. Blown

Member
Dec 9, 2004
583
1
18
Mar 14, 2007
#13
  • Mar 14, 2007
  • #13
You can't just stop the story now.
 

redhotcomet

New Member
Mar 30, 2005
103
0
0
Western Canada
Mar 27, 2007
#14
  • Mar 27, 2007
  • #14
strange65 said:
Like I said I am not mentioning any names, the old goat, money grubbing wh*re, cantankerous old b*stard or whatever you feel like calling him -is a lawsuit happy old fool.
Click to expand...

Maybe somebody got to him to keep him quiet?
 

68stang351

Founding Member
May 16, 2002
850
9
39
Savoy TX
Mar 27, 2007
#15
  • Mar 27, 2007
  • #15
Are you going to finish? It's been over two weeks since the last post. Makes me wonder about the validity of the story.
 

1320stang

Founding Member
Nov 13, 1998
4,329
23
89
Edmond, Oklahoma
Apr 3, 2007
#16
  • Apr 3, 2007
  • #16
Maybe 'they' got him.......
 
B

bnickel

Founding Member
Aug 21, 2002
5,640
3
77
lubbock, texas
Apr 3, 2007
#17
  • Apr 3, 2007
  • #17
those darn "they" always abducting peeps from here. i sure hope he doesn't get the "Probe".....LOL
 
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