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Brakes The Ultimate 4-lug/5-lug Brake Conversion/upgrade Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mustang5L5
  • Start date Start date Nov 28, 2009
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Buggzb86

New Member
Mar 21, 2020
1
0
1
Sacramento, ca
Mar 21, 2020
#281
  • Mar 21, 2020
  • #281
Can you use SVO axles, in a stock 89 fox 8.8 housing?
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,258
17,941
224
Massachusetts
Mar 21, 2020
#282
  • Mar 21, 2020
  • #282
Buggzb86 said:
Can you use SVO axles, in a stock 89 fox 8.8 housing?
Click to expand...

You can, but only with SVO rear brakes.

Those axles are 1.25" longer than drum brake axles, so they stick way out. The only brake setup that works with them is the 84-86SVO and 84-90 Mark 7 rear disks
 

Boricua86

Active Member
Jul 17, 2016
86
40
38
Milford, Michigan
Mar 23, 2020
#283
  • Mar 23, 2020
  • #283
So let me run this by you guys, I have completed the 5 lug swap and used the following brake set up

Front:
SN95 spindles (1995)
Cadillac ATS Brembo calipers
13" rotors
Power Stop pads

Rear:
Fox length axles
SN95 calipers (1995)
Power Stop pads

Under Hood:
SN95 booster (1995)
SN95 MC (1995)
Wilwood Prop valve

Am I missing anything?

and

Would the booster and MC be enough to run the set up?



Thanks in advance folks.
 

KRUISR

10 Year Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,817
925
143
Mar 23, 2020
#284
  • Mar 23, 2020
  • #284
What's the bore on the MC. You may need something bigger than a stock 95 MC.

A stock '01 GT that has dual piston PBR calipers (dual 45mm pistons) which gives them a 6361 square mm of piston area on the front. Your set up is quad 42mm pistons per side, that's 11080 square mm for the front. I think your MC won't be able to move enough fluid to be effective. I believe the stock '01 has a 1-1/16" bore MC. If so, you will likely need a larger one than that.

Set up looks impressive. Did you fabricate mounting brackets for the calipers? If so, any pics?
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,258
17,941
224
Massachusetts
Mar 23, 2020
#285
  • Mar 23, 2020
  • #285
With opposing piston calipers, you only need to process two of the 4 pistons in that calculation.

A 1" bore MC (1993 Cobra) should be adequate for the ATS front and 38mm rear calipers
A 1 1/16" MX (94-95GT) should be adequate for the ATS front and 43mm Taurus rear calipers (better brake balance)


KRUISR said:
I believe the stock '01 has a 1-1/16" bore MC.
Click to expand...

The hydroboost uses 1 1/16, but the V6 with vacuum assist uses a 1.003" bore MC with the dual 45mm fronts.
 

Boricua86

Active Member
Jul 17, 2016
86
40
38
Milford, Michigan
Mar 24, 2020
#286
  • Mar 24, 2020
  • #286
KRUISR said:
What's the bore on the MC. You may need something bigger than a stock 95 MC.

A stock '01 GT that has dual piston PBR calipers (dual 45mm pistons) which gives them a 6361 square mm of piston area on the front. Your set up is quad 42mm pistons per side, that's 11080 square mm for the front. I think your MC won't be able to move enough fluid to be effective. I believe the stock '01 has a 1-1/16" bore MC. If so, you will likely need a larger one than that.

Set up looks impressive. Did you fabricate mounting brackets for the calipers? If so, any pics?
Click to expand...
I cant take credit for the idea. There is a write here and at the corral about these brakes. there two ways to do it, get the prefab inserts that will move the caliper into place, or enlarge the holes on the spindles (caliper mounts)….

either way thanks,
 

Boricua86

Active Member
Jul 17, 2016
86
40
38
Milford, Michigan
Mar 24, 2020
#287
  • Mar 24, 2020
  • #287
Mustang5L5 said:
With opposing piston calipers, you only need to process two of the 4 pistons in that calculation.

A 1" bore MC (1993 Cobra) should be adequate for the ATS front and 38mm rear calipers
A 1 1/16" MX (94-95GT) should be adequate for the ATS front and 43mm Taurus rear calipers (better brake balance)




The hydroboost uses 1 1/16, but the V6 with vacuum assist uses a 1.003" bore MC with the dual 45mm fronts.
Click to expand...
So in short, I should go ahead and get the 1993 Cobra MC?
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,258
17,941
224
Massachusetts
Mar 24, 2020
#288
  • Mar 24, 2020
  • #288
Boricua86 said:
So in short, I should go ahead and get the 1993 Cobra MC?
Click to expand...

WHat booster?

If stock booster, go 93 cobra. If SN95 or 93 cobra booster, the 94-95 GT 1 1/16" MC might be a better choice


When I did my napkin calcs, the setup that seemed most ideal on paper was ATS front/43mm rear calipers, with 1 1/16" MC giving you around a 73/27% brake bias split.

When I get to installing this on my car, the above is what I plan on doing.
 
Last edited: Mar 24, 2020

KRUISR

10 Year Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,817
925
143
Mar 24, 2020
#289
  • Mar 24, 2020
  • #289
Boricua86 said:
there two ways to do it, get the prefab inserts that will move the caliper into place, or enlarge the holes on the spindles (caliper mounts)….
Click to expand...

So which way did you do it? Or do you still need to do it?
 

Boricua86

Active Member
Jul 17, 2016
86
40
38
Milford, Michigan
Mar 24, 2020
#290
  • Mar 24, 2020
  • #290
KRUISR said:
So which way did you do it? Or do you still need to do it?
Click to expand...
I enlarged the holes. Well enlarged one, and "elongated" the other by a bit. My signature pic is the final product. Just working on under the hood stuff
 

Boricua86

Active Member
Jul 17, 2016
86
40
38
Milford, Michigan
Mar 24, 2020
#291
  • Mar 24, 2020
  • #291
Mustang5L5 said:
WHat booster?

If stock booster, go 93 cobra. If SN95 or 93 cobra booster, the 94-95 GT 1 1/16" MC might be a better choice


When I did my napkin calcs, the setup that seemed most ideal on paper was ATS front/43mm rear calipers, with 1 1/16" MC giving you around a 73/27% brake bias split.

When I get to installing this on my car, the above is what I plan on doing.
Click to expand...
I have 95 booster and 95 MC... ok good to go
 

Boricua86

Active Member
Jul 17, 2016
86
40
38
Milford, Michigan
Mar 24, 2020
#292
  • Mar 24, 2020
  • #292
Mustang5L5 said:
WHat booster?

If stock booster, go 93 cobra. If SN95 or 93 cobra booster, the 94-95 GT 1 1/16" MC might be a better choice


When I did my napkin calcs, the setup that seemed most ideal on paper was ATS front/43mm rear calipers, with 1 1/16" MC giving you around a 73/27% brake bias split.

When I get to installing this on my car, the above is what I plan on doing.
Click to expand...
Hey what's the brake bias with the 95 GT booster and MC?

Also, I've always wanted to learn the formula for the brake bias... where could I find it?
 

Boricua86

Active Member
Jul 17, 2016
86
40
38
Milford, Michigan
Mar 31, 2020
#293
  • Mar 31, 2020
  • #293
 
Reactions: Willybill32, Mustang5L5 and General karthief

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,258
17,941
224
Massachusetts
Mar 31, 2020
#294
  • Mar 31, 2020
  • #294
Boricua86 said:
Hey what's the brake bias with the 95 GT booster and MC?

Also, I've always wanted to learn the formula for the brake bias... where could I find it?
Click to expand...

Bias has nothing to do with the booster/MC.

It's a calculation based on caliper piston sizes, pad area, and rotor sizes. It gets to be a bit complex. Number of online resources to calc it out.

Bias Calculator
 
Reactions: Boricua86
F

fox racer v2

Active Member
Jun 2, 2019
109
57
38
Brooklyn
May 5, 2020
#295
  • May 5, 2020
  • #295
Somewhat 5 lug swap related:

Anyone have experience with a 5 lug swap using SN95 axles and wheels that are 17x8.5” with 30mm offset (5.9 bs)?

My plans are to use 98 cobra wheels, but the repro 93 Cobras from LMR keep catching my eye - I just think with SN95 axles it’ll be close (Nitto 245/45/17 tires, stock rear 89 LX springs)

EDIT: decided to do the math myself.

The old FRPP wheels that fit with SN95 axles measure 17x9” with 36mm offset.
The replica 93 Cobras are 17x8.5”, with 30mm offset.
The difference in width is roughly accounted for by the difference in offset (centerline is 4.5” vs 4.25”; 6mm offset is roughly 0.25”).

So it looks like it would work, assuming the 17x9” w/36mm offset fits. That said, ‘98 Cobras will actually have a bit more fender room. It’ll also fit my Brembos I’ll be mounting later on down the road.
 
Last edited: May 7, 2020

89gt89

Member
May 28, 2005
57
0
6
Bothell, WA
May 16, 2020
#296
  • May 16, 2020
  • #296
fox racer v2 said:
Somewhat 5 lug swap related:

Anyone have experience with a 5 lug swap using SN95 axles and wheels that are 17x8.5” with 30mm offset (5.9 bs)?

My plans are to use 98 cobra wheels, but the repro 93 Cobras from LMR keep catching my eye - I just think with SN95 axles it’ll be close (Nitto 245/45/17 tires, stock rear 89 LX springs)

EDIT: decided to do the math myself.

The old FRPP wheels that fit with SN95 axles measure 17x9” with 36mm offset.
The replica 93 Cobras are 17x8.5”, with 30mm offset.
The difference in width is roughly accounted for by the difference in offset (centerline is 4.5” vs 4.25”; 6mm offset is roughly 0.25”).

So it looks like it would work, assuming the 17x9” w/36mm offset fits. That said, ‘98 Cobras will actually have a bit more fender room. It’ll also fit my Brembos I’ll be mounting later on down the road.
Click to expand...
I'd like to see how they fit w/sn95 length rear axles as well. Does one need to roll the fender?
 

89gt89

Member
May 28, 2005
57
0
6
Bothell, WA
May 22, 2020
#297
  • May 22, 2020
  • #297
89gt89 said:
I'd like to see how they fit w/sn95 length rear axles as well. Does one need to roll the fender?
Click to expand...
I just got my order today from LMR for a 5 lug 93 Cobra wheel. It'll fit perfect with the following SN95 combo: 94 - 98 stock length axles tucked into a 88 Turbo Coupe 8.8 housing riding on eibach Sportline springs. There's about 1/8 - 1/4 between the lip of the rim and the outside of your rear wheel body lip. I have an MM torque arm and panhard so I'm perfectly centered. You might need a "soft" roll on your fender. Not a flush roll. The TC 8.8 quad shock mounts(slightly different geometry than mustang) make it impossible for me to run a quad (if I weren't already running the torque arm). I'll post a video to youtube type 89gt89 showing them on my 93 Cobra w/big brake upgrade guide. I'm glad I bought 1 wheel as a test before buying stock length fox 5 lug axles, caliper mounting brackets, etc. On a side note. I originally did a fox length SN rear disc conversion on my 91 coupe. Funny thing is....I kept adding wheel spacers until I got the fit I wanted...ended up being 3/4 longer than stock...exactly the same as an SN axle length. One last thing worth mentioning. LMR says these wheels are not returnable. Hope this helps.
 
F

fox racer v2

Active Member
Jun 2, 2019
109
57
38
Brooklyn
May 27, 2020
#298
  • May 27, 2020
  • #298
89gt89 said:
I just got my order today from LMR for a 5 lug 93 Cobra wheel. It'll fit perfect with the following SN95 combo: 94 - 98 stock length axles tucked into a 88 Turbo Coupe 8.8 housing riding on eibach Sportline springs. There's about 1/8 - 1/4 between the lip of the rim and the outside of your rear wheel body lip. I have an MM torque arm and panhard so I'm perfectly centered. You might need a "soft" roll on your fender. Not a flush roll. The TC 8.8 quad shock mounts(slightly different geometry than mustang) make it impossible for me to run a quad (if I weren't already running the torque arm). I'll post a video to youtube type 89gt89 showing them on my 93 Cobra w/big brake upgrade guide. I'm glad I bought 1 wheel as a test before buying stock length fox 5 lug axles, caliper mounting brackets, etc. On a side note. I originally did a fox length SN rear disc conversion on my 91 coupe. Funny thing is....I kept adding wheel spacers until I got the fit I wanted...ended up being 3/4 longer than stock...exactly the same as an SN axle length. One last thing worth mentioning. LMR says these wheels are not returnable. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

This is very helpful, thank you!

I ended up sticking to SN95axles/‘98 cobras, but if I ever decide to change it’s helpful to know.
 
S

Slumone

New Member
May 7, 2019
24
0
1
14609
Jul 22, 2020
#299
  • Jul 22, 2020
  • #299
Rock auto sent me two different rotor castings for the front of my Fox to 04 GT upgrade. They are the same thickness and leave the same distance from hub to hat. Are these the same metallurgy or will I get differing amounts of grip?

 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,258
17,941
224
Massachusetts
Jul 22, 2020
#300
  • Jul 22, 2020
  • #300
Only difference is the brr54 is a service rotor, so it’s coated. The 198 is bare.

at keast that’s what it should be
 
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