Tie Rod Issue Please Help!!!

DTNODYA · Feb 17, 2006

I have a 98 GT and for a while now have had some steering issues. Long story short, the last time I jacked my car up to fix some unrelated things, I checked my tie rod ends. My passenger side tie rod end is all messed up. Luckily, I have another vehicle so I am not stranded but I have no experience with tie rods, so here's my issue. The tie rod end is loose so I tried to tighten it and the entire rod (going into the steering rack) turned. Basically, I can't get the tie rod end off of the other rod because it is like fused together. I don't know if that makes sense so here are some pictures that may explain better:

This pic is of me trying to get the nut loose which will not break loose ... it is like it's fused to the tie rod end and the rod going into the steering rack:

Here is just a close up view of tie rod end:

How do I fix this? Do I need to buy a whole new steering rack? The tie rod end connects to a rod which goes into the rack but why would it turn when I try to spin the nut? Any help would be greatly appreciated. It is driving me nuts!

Kilgore Trout · Feb 17, 2006

Those bushings on your swaybar endlinks look worn as hell...

I have no idea about the ball joint. I do know you need a pickle fork and the is usually a cotter pin on a castle nut on top.

Have you tried PB Blaster?

BlackenedSVT · Feb 17, 2006

1st off, messing with the nuts that connect the tie-rod and the steering rack will mess up the alignment, becasue now you are moving the wheel in and out...

Also, yeah those tie-rod nuts are supposed to be tight, you may need some rust buster to loosen them. But i wouldn't really do that.

I'm kind of having a hard time reading what you said and understanding what you're trying to do. I dont know if its just me because im tired, or because you're not wording it right...

BlackenedSVT · Feb 17, 2006

looking at these pictures alone:

- you need new sway bar end links and bushings
- you need new rotors
- you PROBABLy need new ball joints, which might be the "loose" condition problem you are talking about
- you probably need an alignment because i think you mess it up if you messed with those tie rod nuts...

DTNODYA · Feb 17, 2006

Sorry for not making myself clear. I am quite aware that I need new bushings and ball joints, I already bought em. Basically, I had a clunk sound coming from that tire area. I jacked the car up and with my hand, grabbed my tie rod end and it was loose. Loose meaning the entire rod that goes to the steering rack, including the tie rod end, turned back and forth by hand. I then attempted to loosen the nut from the tie rod end. The entire assembly from the tie rod end to the steering rack (whatever that's called) would turn back and forth. I don't know how to describe it any other way. I am trying to figure out how the hell that bar (that the tie rod end is connected to) goes into the steering rack. Also, what it is called ... can it be replaced ... As far as bushings and rubber pieces, I already have all that. Hope that makes more sense.

mity2 · Feb 17, 2006

U'll need Needlenose plier, and BFH, and deepwall 18mm( I think. its been a while)socket.

Use needlenose plier, yank out the cutter pin
Use deepsocket and remove castle nut by turning it counter clockwise.
Use GFH, throw carefully aimed blow to top of tierod end. May require several strikes, as your car is bit old

then unscrew tierod end off of tierod.

its really simplfied version of how to. really, its not that hard to replace
U can get new tierod end at parts store pretty cheap

Edit - Sorry I didn't read part where you tried. Obviously, you know how.
U can rent frontend puller set from advancedauto for free(well, sort of), and get it out that way. U can also use pickelFork, but they usually destry the boots. But boots look pretty croppy already.
I had to replace lower balljoint on TA today. I had to cut the stinking thing off, as cutter pin rusted itself to bolts, and custlenut would not comeout

Mike97gt · Feb 17, 2006

to loosen the stop nut on the inner tie rod you have to first put the outer tie rod back into it's socket in the steering knuckle and put the nut on slightly.( the tie rod end in it's steering knuckle socket will keep the whole inner and outer tie rod from moving while you crack the stop nut free) then get a 21 mm wrench and loosen the nut by turing it to the right. remember you want this stop nut to turn towards the rack. so you really want to tighten the nut, this will move it away from the outer tie rod and toward the rack. ( this stop nut works by tightening toward the outer tie rod. by being turned to the left agaisnt the outer tie rod it tightens it into place)

after you break the stop nut free ( just break it free don't screw it in any further toward the rack) then take the nut back off the outer tie rod and knock it back out of the steering knuckle

now the outer tie rod should spin right off the inner tie rod. as long as the stop nut stays on the inner tie rod you just spin the new outer on untill it reaches the stop nut and reassemble.

if you can't figure out what i mean with my poor writing skills, PM me and you can call me i will walk you thru it.

DTNODYA · Feb 18, 2006

Thanks for everyone's input. I am guessing that the inner tie rod is the part I am trying to figure out what is. I assume it can be replaced. I just do not want to have to buy a steering rack if it's not necessary.

Mike97gt · Feb 18, 2006

why do you have to replace the inner?? i thought you said the outer had play in it

OHHH now i see.

THAT TIE ROD ASSEMBLY IS SUPOSED TO TURN BACK AND FORTH. stop what you are doing now before you damage parts you don't need to replace!!!!!!!!!!

to check for tie rod end play you grab the wheel and shake from side to side. and if you feel play you feel where it's coming from.

so put your wheels back on do this and get back to us

DTNODYA · Feb 18, 2006

I put my tire back on and moved it from side to side ... there is play at the tie rod end. I can take my hand and grab the tie rod end with the tire on or off, and rock it back and forth. When I do this, the entire assembly:

rocks back and forth. I figured that the piece where all the green arrows are in the above pic was not supposed to twist. I thought it would have to be bolted in place or something (inside the boot), to remove the nut that allows the tie rod end to come off.

Another example of what I am trying to describe;
In this pic:

If I take that clamp that is on there and move it up and down, the entire assembly from TR end to the steering rack will rotate up and down. Is this normal? The other side is firm like it should be. What the heck do I replace?

Then inner and outer are like fused to be one. The entire thing rotates... If the thing with the green arrows in the first pic is an "inner tie rod". I don't know much about this (as if you couldn't tell) Thanks again folks.

mity2 · Feb 18, 2006

DTNODYA said:
I put my tire back on and moved it from side to side ... there is play at the tie rod end. I can take my hand and grab the tie rod end with the tire on or off, and rock it back and forth. When I do this, the entire assembly:

rocks back and forth. I figured that the piece where all the green arrows are in the above pic was not supposed to twist. I thought it would have to be bolted in place or something (inside the boot), to remove the nut that allows the tie rod end to come off.

Another example of what I am trying to describe;
In this pic:

If I take that clamp that is on there and move it up and down, the entire assembly from TR end to the steering rack will rotate up and down. Is this normal? The other side is firm like it should be. What the heck do I replace?

Then inner and outer are like fused to be one. The entire thing rotates... If the thing with the green arrows in the first pic is an "inner tie rod". I don't know much about this (as if you couldn't tell) Thanks again folks.

tierod will spin. that does not mean your rack and pinion is broke.
Reason why your tierod is spinning is because your locknut is lose.
Where vice grip is cramped on(On your second pic) is lower balljoint assembry lock nut. When you have your toe setting adjusted, u can disconnect your lower ball joint from spindle(or knockle, as sometimes its called), spin the lower balljoint in and out to adjust your toe. after which its set, then you tighten that lock nut against lower ball joint assembry. Thus keeping tierod from spinning.
Pic below is pic of lower ball joint I removed from my T/A today. Its not Mustang unit, but it works the same way

that part screw on to threaded end of your tierod. I thought that part is where you said is lose and what not originaly. But I think youyr probrem is simply your lock nut is lose. tierod will then be able to spin freely. As rusted as it look, once tention from lock nut was losen, i was able to spin that thing off with 1 finger.
What I suggest for you to do is tighten your lock nut. and take it to aligment shop. You sound like you messed with tierod, that your toe setting could be off.
they will adjust your toe, and tighten locknut. And if your balljoint is shot(and it doesn't sound like it is), they will tell you that your lower ball joint needs to be replaced. and if thats the case, its very cheap(I bought replacement lower balljoint with grease nipple for T/A today, and it was like 30bucks/ea.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nzhxkk.jpg

DTNODYA · Feb 18, 2006

Thank you all! I figured it out. First off, I was turning the nut the wrong direction. I finally have my tie rod end off. The only thing I am still a little confused about is the piece that the tie rod screws onto. If I grab it, I can twist/spin it back and forth slightly. Is that normal and ok? Or is it supposed to be locked in place inside the steering rack?

Thanks again .. you all have helped tremendously. :SNSign:

mity2 · Feb 18, 2006

DTNODYA said:
Thank you all! I figured it out. First off, I was turning the nut the wrong direction. I finally have my tie rod end off. The only thing I am still a little confused about is the piece that the tie rod screws onto. If I grab it, I can twist/spin it back and forth slightly. Is that normal and ok? Or is it supposed to be locked in place inside the steering rack?

Thanks again .. you all have helped tremendously. :SNSign:

Well, lock your steering. Tierod should still twist(only if tierod end is disconnected). But I don't think it should go left and right at all. But then again, its been while since i did the on mustang.

If it does move, check your rack bushing where steering rack held down on. May be rubber bushing is gone bad. that would explain if rack itself move. But if rack is rock steady, but tierod moves left and right too much, that might be an issue. Hope someone with more knowlege would chime in on that

haneymotorsport · Feb 18, 2006

I hope I am not duplicating what somewhat might have said, but here it goes anyway... There are two tie-rods, inner and outer. It sounds as though you got the outer rod off (has ball joint ). The inner tie-rod has a female thread that threads onto the rack. Also, this has a ball and socket design to it. This is why you can twist the rod. This is made so you can adjust the toe of the tires. If you take off the bellow boot, you will be able to see what I am saying. The inner rods do go bad....ball and socket wear out and become lose. Just like getting a hip replacement. I hope this helps you.

Mike97gt · Feb 18, 2006

mity2 said:
tierod will spin. that does not mean your rack and pinion is broke.
Reason why your tierod is spinning is because your locknut is lose.
Where vice grip is cramped on(On your second pic) is lower balljoint assembry lock nut. When you have your toe setting adjusted, u can disconnect your lower ball joint from spindle(or knockle, as sometimes its called), spin the lower balljoint in and out to adjust your toe. after which its set, then you tighten that lock nut against lower ball joint assembry. Thus keeping tierod from spinning.
Pic below is pic of lower ball joint I removed from my T/A today. Its not Mustang unit, but it works the same way

that part screw on to threaded end of your tierod. I thought that part is where you said is lose and what not originaly. But I think youyr probrem is simply your lock nut is lose. tierod will then be able to spin freely. As rusted as it look, once tention from lock nut was losen, i was able to spin that thing off with 1 finger.
What I suggest for you to do is tighten your lock nut. and take it to aligment shop. You sound like you messed with tierod, that your toe setting could be off.
they will adjust your toe, and tighten locknut. And if your balljoint is shot(and it doesn't sound like it is), they will tell you that your lower ball joint needs to be replaced. and if thats the case, its very cheap(I bought replacement lower balljoint with grease nipple for T/A today, and it was like 30bucks/ea.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nzhxkk.jpg

mity thats a outer tie rod end not a ball joint. the outer tie rod end screws onto the inner tie rod end and has a ball socket ( same as a ball joint) connection to the knuckle the ball joint in both your TA and a mustang is at the bottom of th knucle

Mike97gt · Feb 18, 2006

DTNODYA said:
Thank you all! I figured it out. First off, I was turning the nut the wrong direction. I finally have my tie rod end off. The only thing I am still a little confused about is the piece that the tie rod screws onto. If I grab it, I can twist/spin it back and forth slightly. Is that normal and ok? Or is it supposed to be locked in place inside the steering rack?

Thanks again .. you all have helped tremendously. :SNSign:

yes it's normal for the inner tie rod to spin. in fact it can spin 360 degrees.

DTNODYA · Feb 18, 2006

mity2 said:
Well, lock your steering. Tierod should still twist(only if tierod end is disconnected). But I don't think it should go left and right at all. But then again, its been while since i did the on mustang.

If it does move, check your rack bushing where steering rack held down on. May be rubber bushing is gone bad. that would explain if rack itself move. But if rack is rock steady, but tierod moves left and right too much, that might be an issue. Hope someone with more knowlege would chime in on that

..AND..

haneymotorsport said:
I hope I am not duplicating what somewhat might have said, but here it goes anyway... There are two tie-rods, inner and outer. It sounds as though you got the outer rod off (has ball joint ). The inner tie-rod has a female thread that threads onto the rack. Also, this has a ball and socket design to it. This is why you can twist the rod. This is made so you can adjust the toe of the tires. If you take off the bellow boot, you will be able to see what I am saying. The inner rods do go bad....ball and socket wear out and become lose. Just like getting a hip replacement. I hope this helps you.

...AND...

svttech76 said:
yes it's normal for the inner tie rod to spin. in fact it can spin 360 degrees.

Those posts told me everything I was wondering about!!!!! It was tough to describe in writing.. I'm going to go out and check the inner tie rods 'ball and sockets' and my rack bushings. I tightened my shocks (1 bolt and two nuts) up top and that helped too. Now I still have a little looseness when pushing and pulling the tire from side to side but it is waayyyy better. I'll check the things you all mentioned and see if there is something out of whack.

mity2 · Feb 18, 2006

svttech76 said:
mity thats a outer tie rod end not a ball joint. the outer tie rod end screws onto the inner tie rod end and has a ball socket ( same as a ball joint) connection to the knuckle the ball joint in both your TA and a mustang is at the bottom of th knucle

aight you got me. I got name screwed up. But what i was trying to tell him was right tho

Mike97gt · Feb 19, 2006

mity2 said:
aight you got me. I got name screwed up. But what i was trying to tell him was right tho

yes it was correct.

Stang|ess · Jul 7, 2006

The search feature does work sometimes .

I tried to get an alignment today, but the guy showed me that my tierods are worn and need to be replaced before they can service me.

He said I have to take off the boot to replace the part (viewable in that pic thanks, DT).

My question is, what is that? I read a lot of termanology in this thread, inner, and outter tierods, tierod ends etc. I don't want to sound like a complete ass when talking to the parts department. I'm assuming it's the entire tierod assembly?

Tie Rod Issue Please Help!!!

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