Time to beef the bottom end…which rotating assembly?

Gearbanger 101 · Oct 6, 2004

Crank is still fine so I’m going with just pistons and rods and am torn between the CHP kit and the D.S.S. kit. Any opinions as to which I should choose, or other alternatives to the two?

stang976 · Oct 6, 2004

i like CHP myself but i have heard some good things about DSS. it depends on what you plan on building really.... if you are looking to keep it naturally aspirated..i would go with a higher compression set-up...and if you plan on adding boost... i would do the opposite.

Gearbanger 101 · Oct 6, 2004

Guess I could have specified. Going witha positive displacement supercharger running probably 330-350rwhp. It's a pre-99 engine ('96 actually) with ported PI heads. I'll be shooting for the 18cc-22cc piston range to keep compression around 9:1 or so.

nickthegenius · Oct 6, 2004

Gearbanger 101 said:
Guess I could have specified. Going witha positive displacement supercharger running probably 330-350rwhp. It's a pre-99 engine ('96 actually) with ported PI heads. I'll be shooting for the 18cc-22cc piston range to keep compression around 9:1 or so.

So.....why build the bottom end for 330-350rwhp? Is the engine ready for a rebuild anyhow? Just curious because those are awfully low numbers to be worried about the bottom end.

Jesus · Oct 6, 2004

Which 9# kit only makes 330-350 HP at the wheels? All the numbers I have seen suggest (at least with a KB blower) youll see 380-400 HP at the wheels with 9#'s. The 6# kit makes like 350 HP at the wheels.

Gearbanger 101 · Oct 6, 2004

nickthegenius said:
So.....why build the bottom end for 330-350rwhp? Is the engine ready for a rebuild anyhow? Just curious because those are awfully low numbers to be worried about the bottom end.

Yeah, the engine needs a rebuild. The previous owner ran it low on oil and ceased one of the camshafts in the head. Don’t know what kind of damage was done to it, but I’m not going to chance it. Besides that, I’m told that the stock rods are only good for about 400 or so flywheel horsepower, and I should be making somewhere between the 410-420 range, so I figured it was better safe than sorry. Lastly, I’ve heard horror stories of guys breaking a ring landing with as little as 2-3lb’s of boost and I plan on running no less than 9psi with this set up. It being fed by a positive displacement blower makes it that much more susceptible to failure…..not to mention the stock pistons with the PI heads will yield a 10.4:1 CR, which doesn’t mix very well with boost.

Gearbanger 101 · Oct 6, 2004

Jesus said:
Which 9# kit only makes 330-350 HP at the wheels? All the numbers I have seen suggest (at least with a KB blower) youll see 380-400 HP at the wheels with 9#'s. The 6# kit makes like 350 HP at the wheels.

It's an AED (Allen Engine Development) kit that utilizes an “S” ported Eaton M-90, not a twin screw. I may be able to squeeze a little more out of it with cams later on down the road, but 370rwhp is the most I’ve ever seen them make. I would like to have gone with a KB, but for one it's very pricey and is not a direct bolt, nor is it guaranteed that it would clear the hood line of my car. I'm Building a '96 Cougar XR7 BTW, not a Mustang. Not to mention the build quality of the Allen kit is by far the best I have ever seen (including KB and all of the other big names) and their customer support is apparently top notch.

hotmustang331 · Oct 6, 2004

I would replace the crank too....the machs have same rods as us and they can spin to 6800RPMs so if the only thing holding us back is the crank then get it too.Has to be weak or our rev limiters would be at 6800RPM.(wouldnt make anything at 6800 but still LOL its a rush to run to 6600-6700 RPMs)

Gearbanger 101 · Oct 6, 2004

Well, from what I understand, the stock 4.6L SOHC crank is good for 600fwhp. More than this engine will ever see. I'll replace it if it's bad, but otherwise, I don't see this car seeing more that about 6000rpm or so, sucking through a 4R70W automatic transmission.

Tylerb59 · Oct 6, 2004

I second the crank, and just replacing most of the internals with forged pieces much like a stroker kit.

I've always read anything more then 400rwhp in an otherwise stock 2v you'll be needing to tread lightly.

In other words, if you put on a 9psi KB setup you can pretty much consider yourself done because adding any more power without getting some stronger parts below is asking for trouble.

However ... if you plan on capping your power to 350rwhp you might be fine. It'd just make you feel a bit more secure knowing if you work on the bottom end you can safely turn up the boost when you get that urge for more power.

boomshack · Oct 6, 2004

Check out this site as an alternative and an extra choice:

http://www.vtengines.com/46Ford.htm

Haven't used though, so just giving you another option

Gearbanger 101 · Oct 6, 2004

With the stock crank, steel rods and forged pistons, the bottom end will handle 600hp. I've still got a loooong way to go until I see that.

Getting back to my original question. Is one kit any better, or any more complete than the other (CHP vs D.S.S.) and does anyone recomend an alternative to either of them?

Gearbanger 101 · Oct 6, 2004

boomshack said:
Check out this site as an alternative and an extra choice:

http://www.vtengines.com/46Ford.htm

Haven't used though, so just giving you another option

Thanks boomshack, there's one viable alternative...any idea where they're located? (519) almost sounds like a Southern Ontario area code. I doubt I could get that lucky, though. Especially with an American flag in the upper left corner used in the banner.

boomshack · Oct 6, 2004

Gearbanger 101 said:
Thanks boomshack, there's one viable alternative...any idea where they're located? (519) almost sounds like a Southern Ontario area code. I doubt I could get that lucky, though. Especially with an American flag in the upper left corner used in the banner.

No problem. Looked it up online and it shows as Ontario...weird that they'd have a US flag on it, maybe an American company located in Canada.

Hey so to expand on your comment about the block being able to handle 600 hp if the rods and pistons are upgraded, does that mean that if I plan on getting blown to 500rwp, I won't need a race block to go along with the forged internals? Thanks.

maddogg545 · Oct 7, 2004

Is one kit any better, or any more complete than the other (CHP vs D.S.S.)

IMHO I think both companies are pretty much even. They both offer good products at reasonable prices.

Just flip a coin

Gearbanger 101 · Oct 7, 2004

boomshack said:
No problem. Looked it up online and it shows as Ontario...weird that they'd have a US flag on it, maybe an American company located in Canada.

Huh, so it is an Ontario, Canada based company, huh....cause....if I'm not mistaken, there's an Ontario, California too, is there not? If it is Canadian, let's just hope their prices are too. $1395.00 is a damn good price for a forged rotating assembly!

boomshack said:
Hey so to expand on your comment about the block being able to handle 600 hp if the rods and pistons are upgraded, does that mean that if I plan on getting blown to 500rwp, I won't need a race block to go along with the forged internals? Thanks.

Well...ya see. Here's the thing. I can't remember if the crank is good for 600rwhp, or 600fwhp? If it's 600rwhp, I'd say you've got nothing to worry about, but if not, I’d recommended getting a full forged rotating assembly. Either way, I don't see as to why you'd need to drop an extra grand or so on a race block. From what I remember, the blocks themselves aren't the real weak link, just the rods and pistons. With a good rotating assembly, I’d venture to say it should take somewhere around the 700rwhp mark.

Gearbanger 101 · Oct 7, 2004

Damn....their head office is in Ontario, Canada, but their shop is in Lansing, Michigan. Looks like I'd be stuck paying exchange and taxes, either way.

Gearbanger 101 · Oct 7, 2004

Someone on another site just turned me on to these guys. Anyone have any experience with their products? So far it's been by far the best price I'm able to find for a rotating assembly. $1199.00
http://www.modularperformance.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=MP&Category_Code=EK

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