timing advanced too much>?

SeriousSN95 · Jan 18, 2006

Whats up guys, i wanted to get some opinions on whats happing when im runnin the car hard. the other day i advanced my timing to 10 degrees. Is this too much to run on the street even tho i use 93 octane? The reason why im askin is because when i romp on it and it goes to shift it will hit about 5500 and choke then hit second gear, i have an AODE thats totally rebuilt(boosted line pressure, shiftkit,tweeked valve body, and 2200 stall converter) and before it hit CRISP,chirping gears, even in 3rd on blacktop running 4.10s and m/t ET STREET radials? i dont know what the deal is but im thinking the timing is too far advanced. also my plugs are new motorcraft Stock plugs with msd blaster2 coil, msd wires, msd cap and rotor. Any info will help guys.

ALSO, if the timing is too advanced whats the perfect timing to bring it to when i change it? Thanks SeriousSN95:SNSign:

BlackVert · Jan 18, 2006

10 degrees is stock, isn't it?

69clark · Jan 18, 2006

Yeah, 10 is stock.

Did you mean you advanced it 10 degrees to have a total of 20 degrees advance?

HISSIN50 · Jan 18, 2006

And what were you running timing-wise before you advanced it?

The Auto puter pulls a load of timing during shifts, but that should be a constant (irregardless of base timing - all you did was phase-shift the curve).

Good luck.

Labora · Jan 18, 2006

Is there such a thing of too much timing?? (considering 94-95's pull SOO much timing during up shifts) I just found out last week my car is actually running 21* degress of timing. Without any detontaion and I've been running it this way for about 8 months. (yes I set it by ear the stock balancer was too hard to read I recently had to change it out and I could read the timing marks now)

I've been thinking of turning it down to 17-18. But haven't made up my mind yet. Stock HCI on my car, all the bolts ons and full exhaust.

BlackVert · Jan 18, 2006

Labora said:
Is there such a thing of too much timing?? (considering 94-95's pull SOO much timing during up shifts) I just found out last week my car is actually running 21* degress of timing. Without any detontaion and I've been running it this way for about 8 months. (yes I set it by ear the stock balancer was too hard to read I recently had to change it out and I could read the timing marks now)

I've been thinking of turning it down to 17-18. But haven't made up my mind yet. Stock HCI on my car, all the bolts ons and full exhaust.

if it's not pre-igniting, then no worries, right?

legalize420 · Jan 18, 2006

yes 10* is stock, im running 14* and 87 with no problem.

HISSIN50 · Jan 18, 2006

It will vary for every car. Alum heads, for instance, can normally take a little more timing.

I would not compare timing during tip-in with total timing, the latter of which is way too high in many situations IMHO. Gotta love the load-based puter. The AODE only exacerbates the issue (taking away power, being heavier, choosing the gears for you, having wider ratio cogs, etc).

VibrantRedGT · Jan 18, 2006

SeriousSN95 said:
Whats up guys, i wanted to get some opinions on whats happing when im runnin the car hard. the other day i advanced my timing to 10 degrees. Is this too much to run on the street even tho i use 93 octane? The reason why im askin is because when i romp on it and it goes to shift it will hit about 5500 and choke then hit second gear, i have an AODE thats totally rebuilt(boosted line pressure, shiftkit,tweeked valve body, and 2200 stall converter) and before it hit CRISP,chirping gears, even in 3rd on blacktop running 4.10s and m/t ET STREET radials? i dont know what the deal is but im thinking the timing is too far advanced. also my plugs are new motorcraft Stock plugs with msd blaster2 coil, msd wires, msd cap and rotor. Any info will help guys.

ALSO, if the timing is too advanced whats the perfect timing to bring it to when i change it? Thanks SeriousSN95:SNSign:

Are you saying you advanced it another 10 degrees on top of the stock 10 degrees setting?

Chythar · Jan 18, 2006

SeriousSN95 said:
Whats up guys, i wanted to get some opinions on whats happing when im runnin the car hard. the other day i advanced my timing to 10 degrees. Is this too much to run on the street even tho i use 93 octane? The reason why im askin is because when i romp on it and it goes to shift it will hit about 5500 and choke then hit second gear, i have an AODE thats totally rebuilt(boosted line pressure, shiftkit,tweeked valve body, and 2200 stall converter) and before it hit CRISP,chirping gears, even in 3rd on blacktop running 4.10s and m/t ET STREET radials? i dont know what the deal is but im thinking the timing is too far advanced. also my plugs are new motorcraft Stock plugs with msd blaster2 coil, msd wires, msd cap and rotor. Any info will help guys.

Did you set the timing with the spout connector out? If not, your timing isn't at 10 degrees. If you don't know what the spout connector is, then you likely didn't pull it before setting the timing.

SeriousSN95 · Jan 19, 2006

no i guess the guys set it at stock becuase he was like "oo well lets advance it TO 10 because they brought it back from 14 where it was origionally, and yes he did pull spuot connecter, he said it was the igniton pill? it looked like a little pill he pulled out of a wire thats right next to the MAF? i dunno my car isnt running like it was so its definatly not at a higher timing. whats a good timing to go with if im going to run midgrade and high grade? 14-16? Thanks for all the post guys! SeriousSN95

final5-0 · Jan 19, 2006

SeriousSN95 said:
no i guess the guys set it at stock becuase he was like "oo well lets advance it TO 10 because they brought it back from 14 where it was origionally, and yes he did pull spuot connecter, he said it was the igniton pill? it looked like a little pill he pulled out of a wire thats right next to the MAF? i dunno my car isnt running like it was so its definatly not at a higher timing. whats a good timing to go with if im going to run midgrade and high grade? 14-16? Thanks for all the post guys! SeriousSN95

You said in your original post you use 93 octane soooooooooooooooo
In theory, that should allow you to run a bit more spark.

The theory part is all about if you got a GT or Cobra. If you got a GT, maybe you can up the spark a bit without hearing the ping thing
or
Maybe Not

In this post you say someone moved the spark from 14 to 10 and you most likely lost a bit of power from that. 4 degrees very well could make a noticable difference.

When you were at 14, did you have ping issues?

If not, go to 16 and see if you hear ping.
If you hear ping at 16, go back to 14.

If you want to move down on octane you may have move down on your spark value a bit.

Bottom Line Here IS

Hear Ping ...... up the octane OR back off the spark OR do both
but most improtant of all
Do whatever it takes to get rid of the ping thing

Grady

RFMustangGT · Jan 20, 2006

My AODE can't run above 15*. I have it set at 13* for now. Then again with these cars, everyone is different. Just a matter of getting out and playing with it.

Don 95Vert · Jan 20, 2006

You CAN overspark a motor and sometimes not hear any ping - and lose power. We've seen it on the dyno many times. You keep adding timing a little at a time, there is no detonation, then you get to a point where you gain no power or actually lose power. Most of the time, however, it will detonate before it gets to that point.

Ford actually has done a LOT of work on dynos determing the maximum brake HP timing on all the cars. And the work they have done is VERY good and really works. On a typical auto - like a W4H0, the total timing for maximum brake HP (assuming 10* at the crank) for a stock car is 29.5* at max RPM and load - however to control detonation the actual commanded max spark is 25* - and that doesn't take into account the several different spark modifiers that come into play.

So really the bottom line is that on a stock car, IF you can avoid detonation (doubtful) you really get no benefit from advancing past 14.5* at the crank - past that you are oversparked or getting detonation and not realizing it.

Aftermarket heads and it's another story - they will change the entire ballgame as far as spark is concerned.

Hope this helps,

Don

timing advanced too much>?

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