Engine Timing

Mike Kauntz · Mar 9, 2021

I have a 1989 Mustang 5.0 LX, in 2002 the previous owner installed a 302 rebuilt by Marshall Engines in Nebraska. I've read horror story reviews about them.
My problem is the timing is advanced way to much. My brother hot tested engines at Ford Motor Cleveland for 40 plus years and he could only guess as to what
the problem is. When I attempted to run the engine with a close to normal timing it ran like crap. Just wondering if anyone can tell me if maybe the timing chain skipped
a tooth or it was a bad re-build. I'm not even sure if the engine is indeed for a Mustang because stock motor mounts were useless when I went to change a broken one.

a91what · Mar 9, 2021

First, is this EFI or has it had a carb conversion done to it?

if its EFI then the ECU has control of the timing, what is the base timing set at?

Mike Kauntz · Mar 9, 2021

To be honest I don't know what the base timing is set at. That's something I'll address. It is an EFI. What I do know is the
first thing we noticed was the distributor was turned as far counter clockwise as it could go. I'm just curious as to what might
cause this.

a91what · Mar 9, 2021

someone setting the timing incorrectly or the distributor hold down being loose

Mike Kauntz · Mar 9, 2021

a91what said:
someone setting the timing incorrectly or the distributor hold down being loose

Everything is tight and yes the timing is way advanced but the car runs great. If I retard the timing to where it should be the engine runs rough.
I'm just wondering how my engine is different from others, what may be causing the difference and if anyone has run into this before. I'm perfectly
fine driving the car the way it is.

a91what · Mar 9, 2021

remove the spout and set the timing to 10*

if you dont remove the spout you are setting the timing incorrectly

Mike Kauntz · Mar 9, 2021

a91what said:
remove the spout and set the timing to 10*

if you dont remove the spout you are setting the timing incorrectly

I removed the sprout when setting the timing and the engine is running great. If I set the timing around where it should be it runs bad.

Mike Kauntz · Mar 9, 2021

a91what said:
remove the spout and set the timing to 10*

if you dont remove the spout you are setting the timing incorrectlyI

I removed the sprout set the timing around where it should be and the engine ran like crap. I had advance the timing way to much before the engine ran well.

a91what · Mar 9, 2021

are you sure that the balancer is good, they can go bad and slip.

look at the rubber material between the hub and the outer ring, is it cracked or bulging?

Mike Kauntz · Mar 9, 2021

a91what said:
are you sure that the balancer is good, they can go bad and slip.

look at the rubber material between the hub and the outer ring, is it cracked or bulging?

Good thought, I'll have to check that out, I'll let you know. Thank you

foxbodybill89 · Mar 9, 2021

Whenever someone says they have to advance timing to get it to run good, I'd bet all my money on the balancer being the problem. The way it spins if it slips it will show more advance than what it really is.

Mike Kauntz · Mar 9, 2021

foxbodybill89 said:
Whenever someone says they have to advance timing to get it to run good, I'd bet all my money on the balancer being the problem. The way it spins if it slips it will show more advance than what it really is.

Thank you that's something I hadn't thought of.

General karthief · Mar 9, 2021

From your description I think you need to start with verifying the timing and get that distributor in a better place.
On the main tech page here in the fox tech forums is the famous technical/how to thread, there you'll find helpful info, look for distributor install, also at the bottom of this thread are similar threads that may have good info. Of course I'm sure some of our self proclaimed experts will chime in with dubious advice,

AFR and Trickflow Head Information

Over time, there is many post about what heads come with certain parts so I figured I would get some information together to help us all better understand what comes with certain heads:nice: If any corrections or additions need to be made, let me know:) Airflow Research Heads 100% CNC...

www.stangnet.com

I believe it discusses setting timing starting at top dead center and distributor orientation. If not let me know I can explain it

Mike Kauntz · Mar 10, 2021

General karthief said:
From your description I think you need to start with verifying the timing and get that distributor in a better place.
On the main tech page here in the fox tech forums is the famous technical/how to thread, there you'll find helpful info, look for distributor install, also at the bottom of this thread are similar threads that may have good info. Of course I'm sure some of our self proclaimed experts will chime in with dubious advice,

AFR and Trickflow Head Information

Over time, there is many post about what heads come with certain parts so I figured I would get some information together to help us all better understand what comes with certain heads:nice: If any corrections or additions need to be made, let me know:) Airflow Research Heads 100% CNC...

www.stangnet.com

I believe it discusses setting timing starting at top dead center and distributor orientation. If not let me know I can explain it

I'll look at those threads today. I'm basically just curious about whats going on because the engine is running great the way it is, it's just not normal.

General karthief · Mar 10, 2021

You keep talking about timing advance and retard but you don't say what your timing is set at. Are you using a timing light?

Mike Kauntz · Mar 10, 2021

General karthief said:
You keep talking about timing advance and retard but you don't say what your timing is set at. Are you using a timing light?

I'm using a timing light and the timing is off the marks so I'm not sure at this point what the timing is set at.

General karthief · Mar 10, 2021

Ok start with finding top dead center, easy-peasy.
Pull all the plugs, you'll know why in a few, hold your finger over the #1 plug hole, bump the engine till you feel air pushing out, take a small long shaft screw driver or similar object, stick it into the plug hole and turn engine by the bolt on the harmonic balancer with a socket and bar in the same direction and you should feel the piston move up, it will stop and start down, go back and forth with the bar to get it as close to the top of the stroke as possible. The pointer should be at 0*. If not, is the balancer wasted or the pointer bent?
Pardon me if I post this like you know little to nothing about poking around an engine but this is how I would start this venture. And I'm a mechanical retard er, impaired.

Alley Oop · Mar 14, 2021

Here is a little more re TDC:
Pull the #1 spark plug, hell pull them all, you need to change them anyway and it makes it easier to turn the engine by hand. Find 0* on the balancer and mark it, while you are there mark 10* , 12* and 14* btdc too, hold your thumb over the #1 plug hole and crank the engine till you feel air push out, this is the piston coming up on tdc, stick a thin screw driver in the plug hole, crank the engine by hand feeling for the piston to move the screw driver, you can use the piston moving the screw driver to feel the piston move up than down, as it stops moving up that is tdc, your balancer should be at 0* and the rotor should point to the #1 spark plug wire tower on the distributor, oh, forgot to mention you need to mark the outside of the distributor where the #1 plug wire is.
While you are fooling around finding tdc/ rotor pointing to #1 plug wire, move the balancer back and forth noting how far you have to turn the balancer to make the rotor move,

Engine Timing

Mike Kauntz

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a91what

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Mike Kauntz

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a91what

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Mike Kauntz

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Mike Kauntz

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foxbodybill89

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Mike Kauntz

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General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

AFR and Trickflow Head Information

Mike Kauntz

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AFR and Trickflow Head Information

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Mike Kauntz

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General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

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wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

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wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

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