Titanium

Route666 · Jan 7, 2004

Ok, Now getting Titanium valves and rods for a 302 would be justified to make as much power as possible, but I don't want too much power. What I would like to build is the most efficient engine I can, which means best tolerances, least masses, low friction coatings, rollers, etc. Would it be worth the efficiency, less weight of titanium rods and valves in a mild-high power motor over billet steel and stainless respectively? If only the cost difference wasn't so much, this wouldn't be an issue.

Ideas, opinions, etc welcome.

2bav8 · Jan 7, 2004

Titanium rods would not be worth the effort in a moderate built motor.
Also, while titanium valves are nice, they really show their advantage at higher rpms.
In a more moderate build, I would spend money elsewhere.

fastback brian · Jan 8, 2004

Titanium rods work great in an nhra super stock engine. They would fail in an street drive vehicle, same with any titanium engine part. Yes strong and light but not the greatest durability.

Route666 · Jan 8, 2004

I read that the point of titanium rods were to give the lightness of aluminium with the durability of billet steel.

Route666 · Jan 8, 2004

2bav8 said:
Titanium rods would not be worth the effort in a moderate built motor.
Also, while titanium valves are nice, they really show their advantage at higher rpms.
In a more moderate build, I would spend money elsewhere.

I plan on spending the most money everywhere else in the motor though, that is my point, I want to over-engineer the thing, and run it at a level much below its potential. Also, I would like it to be as efficient as possible. The lighter everything is, the less energy will be wasted moving it.

Do you agree that Ti rods aren't durable?

65StangBoy · Jan 8, 2004

I'm not sure what the durability would be of Ti rods but if I remember correctly Corpse has a brother that can machine Ti rods. I believe he quoted about $3,000 for a set of rods. If it was me I'de just get a nice set of forged 4340 H-Beams or a set of nice billet rods.

Billgear · Jan 8, 2004

What power level and RPM are you expecting?

Route666 · Jan 8, 2004

Well, I will tune it for 500, and RPM, whatever the engine will give me. I'll be using individual runner fuel injection.

EDIT: I want durable first, and strength, so steel sounds the way to go, the saving is another good incentive. Also, like aluminium flywheels, steel weight might be better for street right? More torque?

HistoricMustang · Jan 8, 2004

Put the money somewhere else. I have used low price, one piece valves for years at the track (stainless) with no problems.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

For those interested, I will be adding a tech page to the site in the next few weeks. Tell you how to haul butt in your early model on a budget. Been doing it for years at all the major tracks in the East. Most will not like what I say as it goes against what is being said in the magazines, but heck, they are trying to sell you something. My place is a non commercial, no pop-up hang out. Bookmark it and be stay calm.

Route666 · Jan 8, 2004

Roger that! I'll put the money somewhere else alright, right in my pocket Thanks for all the info, I am suprised that Ti is not as durable as steel. Is it more elastic? and so becomes out of tolerance?

brianj5600 · Jan 8, 2004

Usually Ti parts only go into extreme motors that eat parts no matter what they are made of. I have never heard that Ti rod or valves would fail if they are in a street motor. Valve stems chip, but I have never heard of anyone using them unless they have .700+ lift cams and turning 8500 rpms. Those motors also eat valve springs, rockers, etc. 500hp out of a street 302 = no torque unless there is a power adder involved. I would build all the cubes I could afford, use a smaller cam, use a smaller rear end gear, get better reliability and drivability.

fastback brian · Jan 8, 2004

Go with oliver, the best rod money can buy and crower for the crank. And valves should be matched to whatever head you use, maybe stainless or titainium.

Route666 · Jan 9, 2004

brianj5600 said:
Usually Ti parts only go into extreme motors that eat parts no matter what they are made of. I have never heard that Ti rod or valves would fail if they are in a street motor. Valve stems chip, but I have never heard of anyone using them unless they have .700+ lift cams and turning 8500 rpms. Those motors also eat valve springs, rockers, etc. 500hp out of a street 302 = no torque unless there is a power adder involved. I would build all the cubes I could afford, use a smaller cam, use a smaller rear end gear, get better reliability and drivability.

What I would like to do, is make the engine revier and put bigger diff gears in, so it doesn't make as much power down low as a good smallblock could, but runs in a higher rpm band. For instance, instead of cruising 60mph at 2000rpm, do it at 2300rpm, which would probably have as much power at that rpm as a lower hp motor at 2000rpm. I want it to scream. I love the big block slow, deep grumbling, but have issues with motors that drink as much fuel as air when near idle.

With individual runner intakes, you can run a heavier cam than with a plenum intake, and still have it run smooth, so I'd be able to muster "enough" torque, especially for some relatively spirited diff gears (3.89 or so).

Maybe I'd sedate the power level down to have a more streetable and less stressed ride with more torque anyways.

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