Trick Flow 2V N/A 408hp on Horse Power T.V.

TGJ · Jun 22, 2009

LaserSVT said:
They are already making more then that on a 4.6
So that is not a correction on your part.

The 4.6L are but the N/A 5.4L 2V haven't hit 300 RWHP yet. There is lots that have tried...

The correction I made is correct...

Ported 3V heads flow more than these new TF heads ported do. 4.6L 3V engines with ported 3V heads make considerably more power than equal 5.4 3V engines with ported 3V heads. If the 5.4L 3V guys cannot catch up to to the 4.6L 3V guys with better heads, explain to me how a weaker performing head is going to change that? I am tired of arguing this and proving it. I am going to put it to you quite bluntly to those that want to believe that a 5.4 will make more power than a 4.6L N/A with ANY 2V or 3V head, you are retarded.

TGJ · Jun 22, 2009

Flghtmstr1 said:
I thought the main reason the 5.4L 2v's don't make that much power is because the heads don't flow enough. Wouldn't that be resolved with these new heads? I don't see why 400 rwhp wouldn't be attainable with these heads and the appropriate supporting mods on a 2V 5.4.

The biggest issue with the modular engine is it's Bore spacing. Adding a longer stroke does nothing but add some low end torque and run out of breath quicker. The 5.4L is a stroked 4.6L with a different engine block that is designed for the longer stroke. These heads will help a little but won't be the game changer that the 5.4L people are dreaming about.

Stan Weiss · Jun 22, 2009

The Trick Flow 2v heads flow better stock than the 3v heads. I do not have any numbers for ported Trick Flow 2v heads.
Stan

Trick Flow Twisted Wedge 2V
0.0
0.1000 - 56
0.2000 - 122
0.3000 - 173
0.4000 - 213
0.5000 - 233
0.5500 - 241
0.6000 - 236
0.0
0.1000 - 43
0.2000 - 96
0.3000 - 135
0.4000 - 164
0.5000 - 175
0.5500 - 177
0.6000 - 180

3V Stock Blow-By Racing Alum
1.330709
0.1000 - 77
0.2000 - 147
0.3000 - 200
0.4000 - 216
0.5000 - 223
0.6000 - 225
1.476378
0.1000 - 53
0.2000 - 98
0.3000 - 120
0.4000 - 138
0.5000 - 148
0.6000 - 154

3V Stock PowerHeads Alum
1.330709
0.1000 - 74
0.2000 - 146
0.3000 - 198
0.4000 - 217
0.5000 - 225
0.5500 - 225
0.6000 - 225
1.476378
0.1000 - 71
0.2000 - 119
0.3000 - 145
0.4000 - 170
0.5000 - 190
0.5500 - 193
0.6000 - 198

Gearbanger 101 · Jun 22, 2009

Interesting....the Livernoise Stage III 2-valve heads flow 230cfm@.600 (I) & 197cfm@.600 (E)

...and that's for $1795 + core

Their Stage III 3-valve heads flow 305cfm@.600 (I) & 217cfm@.600 (E)

...all for $2295 + core

Like I said before, unless Trick Flow drops the price on these babys some, they're not going to sell too many units. At least not to those who've done a little research and are quickly realizing similar or better performance can be had for a lot less with ported stock castings.

TGJ · Jun 22, 2009

Stan Weiss said:
The Trick Flow 2v heads flow better stock than the 3v heads. I do not have any numbers for ported Trick Flow 2v heads.
Stan

Trick Flow Twisted Wedge 2V
0.0
0.1000 - 56
0.2000 - 122
0.3000 - 173
0.4000 - 213
0.5000 - 233
0.5500 - 241
0.6000 - 236
0.0
0.1000 - 43
0.2000 - 96
0.3000 - 135
0.4000 - 164
0.5000 - 175
0.5500 - 177
0.6000 - 180

3V Stock Blow-By Racing Alum
1.330709
0.1000 - 77
0.2000 - 147
0.3000 - 200
0.4000 - 216
0.5000 - 223
0.6000 - 225
1.476378
0.1000 - 53
0.2000 - 98
0.3000 - 120
0.4000 - 138
0.5000 - 148
0.6000 - 154

3V Stock PowerHeads Alum
1.330709
0.1000 - 74
0.2000 - 146
0.3000 - 198
0.4000 - 217
0.5000 - 225
0.5500 - 225
0.6000 - 225
1.476378
0.1000 - 71
0.2000 - 119
0.3000 - 145
0.4000 - 170
0.5000 - 190
0.5500 - 193
0.6000 - 198

I didn't say the 3V heads were stock, I referenced P&P 3V heads.

BBR Stg 3 P&P 3V heads:

Intake
Lift----Stock CFM------CNC Porting CFM
.100-----77.1--------------75.3
.200----147.0-------------162.0
.300----199.6-------------228.3
.400----216.0-------------273.8
.500----223.2-------------283.6
.600----224.8-------------292.9

Exhaust
Lift----Stock CFM-----CNC Porting CFM
.100-----52.7-------------46.2
.200-----97.8------------104.3
.300----120.2------------135.7
.400----138.1------------163.2
.500----148.2------------177.0
.600----153.7------------189.6

Ported TF heads flow ~260 CFM on the intake side...

Last time I checked 293 > 260. But as Brian pointed out Livernois' 3V P&P heads flow over 300 CFM on the intake side.

The best 5.4L N/A 3V with BBR P&P 3V heads, BBR N/A cams and the ultra rare Australian 5.4L 3V intake Manifold with all of the bolt-on goodies is flirting with 390 RWHP. BBR built a N/A 4.6L( 284 CI ) engine with their P&P 3V heads/cam combo and the stock 4.6L 3V intake and all the bolt-on and made 427 RWHP.

The best attempt with a 5.4L 3V couldn't achieve 400 RWHP but we can get there with less flowing 2V heads...

Stan Weiss · Jun 23, 2009

I started out by saying I do not have any numbers for ported Trick Flow 2v heads. So I show both heads as stock.

Lets just say if the head porter can not improve the TF heads from 241 cfm to more than 260 cfm there is a problem. I believe someone on here said 291 cfm on the intake for ported TF heads. I hope you understand that flow numbers do not tell the hole story. CSA, MCSA, port velocity, DC, along with rearranged valve position and redesigned combustion chamber.

You do understand the relationship between torque, HP and RPM's? If I can make the same torque at a higher RPM that equals more HP.

Stan Weiss · Jun 23, 2009

Gearbanger 101 said:
Interesting....the Livernoise Stage III 2-valve heads flow 230cfm@.600 (I) & 197cfm@.600 (E)

...and that's for $1795 + core

Their Stage III 3-valve heads flow 305cfm@.600 (I) & 217cfm@.600 (E)

...all for $2295 + core

Like I said before, unless Trick Flow drops the price on these babys some, they're not going to sell too many units. At least not to those who've done a little research and are quickly realizing similar or better performance can be had for a lot less with ported stock castings.

From Livernois Motorsports web site:
5 axis CNC machined
Fully assembled w/o camshafts
Intake flow rate 295 CFM
Exhaust flow rate 200 CFM

CNC Ford 4.6L 3-Valve Cylinder Heads (w/ core) $2899.99/pr

Note: Although it is not required, we will give a $200 in store credit for exchange of your factory 3-valve heads. This refund will be given after we receive and inspect your heads.

New - Livernois Motorsports - CNC Stage 3 Ford 4.6L 3-Valve Cylinder Heads

Gearbanger 101 · Jun 23, 2009

Stan Weiss said:
From Livernois Motorsports web site:
5 axis CNC machined
Fully assembled w/o camshafts
Intake flow rate 295 CFM
Exhaust flow rate 200 CFM

CNC Ford 4.6L 3-Valve Cylinder Heads (w/ core) $2899.99/pr

Note: Although it is not required, we will give a $200 in store credit for exchange of your factory 3-valve heads. This refund will be given after we receive and inspect your heads.

New - Livernois Motorsports - CNC Stage 3 Ford 4.6L 3-Valve Cylinder Heads

View attachment 253708

View attachment 253709

.....wanna split the difference?

In any case, the ported 2V heads seem to nearly match the flow figures of the Trick Flow heads on the intake side and slightly out flow them on the exhaust.

And the ported 3V heads outflow them altogether.

Stan Weiss · Jun 23, 2009

I will give you the price as the web site maybe list price, but for flow numbers that ad does not agree with the web site. The Stage I numbers from the ad are listed as stage II and the flow numbers I posted are listed for the stage III.

I did find this.
Do not use livernoise cncn 3 vlave heads .. flow numbers are a lie.. read inside - Corral Forums
So I do not if there was aproblem with their numbers.

CobraRed_96_GT · Jun 23, 2009

Are we assuming the redesign has no efficiency affect and it's all down to CFM?

squeak93 · Jun 23, 2009

CobraRed_96_GT said:
Are we assuming the redesign has no efficiency affect and it's all down to CFM?

Ding ding ding! Finally. Not all things can be based upon flow numbers alone.

Gearbanger 101 · Jun 23, 2009

I'm basing it not only on their flow numbers, but the performance numbers.

Making 408hp on an engine dyno with H/C/I, minimal exhaust and no accessories is hardly spectacular.

When you factor in the 25-30% loss by the time you run it through the accessories, exhaust system and drive train its not much more than 285-305rwhp

...that figure is easily attainable with ported production castings...and not even heavily modified ones at that?

I think these heads will be great for the racer who plans on having them ported and worked to their full potential and plans on going all out with their build, but for your average Joe, you're just as well to have your stockers ported and save yourself a pile of money and disappointment in the process.

tank_567 · Jun 23, 2009

http://forums.stangnet.com/782310-trick-flow-heads-market-11-a-2.html

tank_567 said:
its not all about how much air you can flow, its how you use it. Most of the power these heads make is in the combustion camber.

.........been saying that from the start...... and in the other treads I have posted this stuff and all the engineers on the web come posting "what ifs" and "flow numbers" also "i've done reads its on the internets" instead of dyno sheets and time slips.

Yellow2002GT · Jun 24, 2009

The TFS heads with a mild stage I cam put down 333/340 at the wheels.....full exhaust with the TFS Plenum and PI intake........that is really impressive.......most people are only hit above 300 HP with stage II PI heads and stage II cams........with a ton more bolt ons......I already ordered the 44cc heads thru Fox Lake and they will port the intake and exhaust runners....they said the head will flow just over 260cfm.......the bowls didn't need to be touched at this point because they flow well and would bennifet from a larger bore.......so 260cfm with a mild hand port of the runners is great! I will post before and after numbers of my results and from the track.......

"ED"

tank_567 · Jun 24, 2009

Yellow2002GT said:
The TFS heads with a mild stage I cam put down 333/340 at the wheels.....full exhaust with the TFS Plenum and PI intake........that is really impressive.......most people are only hit above 300 HP with stage II PI heads and stage II cams........with a ton more bolt ons......I already ordered the 44cc heads thru Fox Lake and they will port the intake and exhaust runners....they said the head will flow just over 260cfm.......the bowls didn't need to be touched at this point because they flow well and would bennifet from a larger bore.......so 260cfm with a mild hand port of the runners is great! I will post before and after numbers of my results and from the track.......

"ED"

Sweet, get some REAL numbers on this thread

LaserSVT · Jun 24, 2009

Yellow2002GT said:
The TFS heads with a mild stage I cam put down 333/340 at the wheels.....full exhaust with the TFS Plenum and PI intake........that is really impressive.......most people are only hit above 300 HP with stage II PI heads and stage II cams........with a ton more bolt ons......I already ordered the 44cc heads thru Fox Lake and they will port the intake and exhaust runners....they said the head will flow just over 260cfm.......the bowls didn't need to be touched at this point because they flow well and would bennifet from a larger bore.......so 260cfm with a mild hand port of the runners is great! I will post before and after numbers of my results and from the track.......

"ED"

Excellent!
So with more cam and through a stick on a 5.4 block there is no way to believe over 400 rwhp is not possiable and over 500 with a 150-200 shot.

Yellow2002GT · Jun 25, 2009

That vehicle that I posted was the Trick Flow shop car......they said it put down 28-29 miles per gallon when they drove to a show in alabama........not to shabby.......I should have my ported TFS 44cc heads soon enough and see what she can gain on my car.....the only changes that will be done are the heads (ported by Fox Lake), adding steeda fuel rails, and some Granetelli 60,000 coils.......the final product will be 11.5 to 1 on 93 octane......car currently puts out 330/330 consistantly at 11.2 to 1 CR and is a daily driver.......I am looking in the neighborhood of 380+hp and 360+tq all on a 01 cobra short block........auto with 4000 stall..........we shall see....

"ED"

TGJ · Jun 26, 2009

Stan Weiss said:
I started out by saying I do not have any numbers for ported Trick Flow 2v heads. So I show both heads as stock.

Lets just say if the head porter can not improve the TF heads from 241 cfm to more than 260 cfm there is a problem. I believe someone on here said 291 cfm on the intake for ported TF heads. I hope you understand that flow numbers do not tell the hole story. CSA, MCSA, port velocity, DC, along with rearranged valve position and redesigned combustion chamber.

You do understand the relationship between torque, HP and RPM's? If I can make the same torque at a higher RPM that equals more HP.

I understand that there is more to the head than CFM, actually if you have read any of my previous tech posts, I mention that.

From what I have heard, and I have talked to the 3 shops that had test heads of the new TF heads. All of them would rather use the 3V head for a project compared to the 2V include using the TF heads. They like the new TF head for the 2V crowd but they feel the 3V head is superior on not just flow numbers. One of the shops having played with all 4 modular heads( 2V, TF2V, 3V and 4V ) recommends the 3V head for any street project over the other 3. Only for pure race cars would he go to a 4V head.

Yellow2002GT · Jun 26, 2009

TGJ said:
I understand that there is more to the head than CFM, actually if you have read any of my previous tech posts, I mention that.

From what I have heard, and I have talked to the 3 shops that had test heads of the new TF heads. All of them would rather use the 3V head for a project compared to the 2V include using the TF heads. They like the new TF head for the 2V crowd but they feel the 3V head is superior on not just flow numbers. One of the shops having played with all 4 modular heads( 2V, TF2V, 3V and 4V ) recommends the 3V head for any street project over the other 3. Only for pure race cars would he go to a 4V head.

No one knows where to start with the new TFS heads for porting and performance.......mild hand porting of the runners get them flowing 260cfm.......it will be some time before a cnc program will be developed for the new heads....I am sure they will produce over 300 cfm + for race versions ect...... TF also is coming out with their own "R" version a little later down the line.......it is too early to say ya or na with the new heads....for now....it will be a nice upgrade from stage II or stage III ported PI's.......the 2v, 3v and 4v have been around for a while and the TFS heads are new and only a few have aquired them soo far.....the 3v head has put down some inpressive numbers soo far....not knocking that......but give it some time for the new heads to reach their full potential......

"ED"

TGJ · Jun 26, 2009

Yellow2002GT said:
No one knows where to start with the new TFS heads for porting and performance.......mild hand porting of the runners get them flowing 260cfm.......it will be some time before a cnc program will be developed for the new heads....I am sure they will produce over 300 cfm + for race versions ect...... TF also is coming out with their own "R" version a little later down the line.......it is too early to say ya or na with the new heads....for now....it will be a nice upgrade from stage II or stage III ported PI's.......the 2v, 3v and 4v have been around for a while and the TFS heads are new and only a few have aquired them soo far.....the 3v head has put down some inpressive numbers soo far....not knocking that......but give it some time for the new heads to reach their full potential......

"ED"

Ed, I am well aware of what these heads are at. I knew they existed before the thread on Mod Fords. I was on Modular Depot's list to get these. I am also aware where some of the shops are at with these heads P&P wise. I am one of the people that has been pushing on what these heads will do, but to the same token, people shouldn't be expecting unrealistic goals with them, like 400 RWHP out of a N/A 5.4L.

Trick Flow 2V N/A 408hp on Horse Power T.V.

New Member

New Member

Member

Straight Outta Locash

New Member

Member

Member

Straight Outta Locash

Member

Active Member

Straight Outta Locash

Active Member

New Member

Active Member

Got FB banned again for saying nards

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency