trickflow trickery?

motocrossed733 said:

Still no codes have been dumped and I will get a vac. gauge next I am still building tools on a need to know basis, where should the vac gauge be installed at, brake vac. line?

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Use any available vacuum connection comming off the intake manifold. The vacuum tree on the firewall is also a good place.

motocrossed733 said:

AAh I didn't notice the black stripe, I have the matching car sounds like same mods, white with saleen wing , I am in Southern Oregon where are you lawbreaker?

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Central Tx. Were still using the A/c down here . i pulled the line going to the fuel regulator line off (at the fuel reg) and hook a vacuum gauge there. i believe i was at 15-16 with a little movement in the guage at idle. Let us know where your at on the vacuum guage so atleast i can compare.

Since you car is an 88 with MAF conversion, did you run the wires to the VSS sensor? The VSS sensor wiring is supposed to tell the computer to increase the idle speed as you slow to a stop. See MAF - Mustang Mass Air Conversion - StangNet - The Mustang Network for more information

Have you dumped the codes? What did you get?

i run my idle at 950, if i run it any lower the rolling idle gets worse

Lawbreaker5.0 said:

i run my idle at 950, if i run it any lower the rolling idle gets worse

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See the "Surging Idle Checklist for help with all your idle/stall problems. Everything you need to find and fix idle problems is in there.

The first two posts contain all the updates to the fixes. At last count there were 24 possible causes and fixes for surging idle/stall problems. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions.

jrichker said:

See the "Surging Idle Checklist for help with all your idle/stall problems. Everything you need to find and fix idle problems is in there.

The first two posts contain all the updates to the fixes. At last count there were 24 possible causes and fixes for surging idle/stall problems. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions.

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yeah i have and it really didn't help. i'm pretty sure its my dirty air filter/maf sensor (one or the other) Its something i've done or bought(used) for this trickflow kit. becuase it never did anything like this before.

The EGR and Thermactor air System (smog pump) are two different systems. They do not interact with each other. The smog pump has no effect on idle unless the pump is dragging or locked up solid. The presence or absence of the crossover pipe on the back of the heads has nothing to do with idle.

Some basic theory to clarify how things work is in order…

EGR System theory and testing

The EGR shuts off at Wide Open Throttle (WOT), so it has minimal effect on performance. The addition of exhaust gas drops combustion temperature, increases gas mileage and reduces the tendency of the engine to ping. It can also reduce HC emissions by reducing fuel consumption. The primary result of EGR usage is a reduction in NOx emissions.

The EGR system has a vacuum source (line from the intake manifold) that goes to the EVR, computer operated electronic vacuum regulator. The EVR is located on the back of the passenger side shock strut tower. The computer uses RPM, Load. and some other factors to tell the EVR to pass vacuum to open the EGR valve. The EGR valve and the passages in the heads and intake manifold route exhaust gas to the EGR spacer (throttle body spacer). The EGR sensor tells the computer how far the EGR valve is open. Then computer adjusts the signal sent to the EVR to hold, increase or decrease the vacuum. The computer adds spark advance to compensate for the recirculated gases and the slower rate they burn at.




Troubleshooting:
There should be no vacuum at the EGR valve when at idle. If there is, the EVR (electronic vacuum regulator) mounted on the backside of the passenger side wheelwell is suspect. Check the vacuum line plumbing to make sure the previous owner didn’t cross the vacuum lines.

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds. (the diagram says 88 GT, but the EGR part is the same for 86-93 Mustangs)


The EGR sensor is basically a variable resistor, like the volume control on a radio. One end is 5 volt VREF power from the computer (red/orange wire). One end is computer signal ground (black/white), and the middle wire (brown/lt green) is the signal output from the EGR sensor. It is designed to always have some small voltage output from it anytime the ignition switch is the Run position. That way the computer knows the sensor & the wiring is OK. No voltage on computer pin 27 (brown/lt green wire) and the computer thinks the sensor is bad or the wire is broken and sets code 31. The voltage output can range from approximately .6-.85 volt.

The EVR regulates vacuum to the EGR valve to maintain the correct amount of vacuum. The solenoid coil should measure 20-70 Ohms resistance. The regulator has a vacuum feed on the bottom which draws from the intake manifold. The other vacuum line is regulated vacuum going to the EGR valve. One side of the EVR electrical circuit is +12 volts anytime the ignition switch is in the run position. The other side of the electrical circuit is the ground path and is controlled by the computer. The computer switches the ground on and off to control the regulator solenoid.



EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones

to check the EGR valve:
bring the engine to normal temp.
connect a vacuum pump to the EGR Valve
apply 5in vacuum to the valve.
if engine stumbled or died then EGR Valve and passage(there is a passageway through the heads and intake) are good.
if engine did NOT stumble or die then either the EGR Valve is bad and/or the passage is blocked.
if engine stumbled, connect vacuum gauge to the hose coming off of the EGR Valve
snap throttle to 2500 RPM (remember snap the throttle don't hold it there).
did the vacuum gauge show about 2-5 in vacuum?

if not, check for manifold vacuum at the EGR vacuum valve.
if you have manifold vacuum then connect vacuum gauge to the EGR valve side of the vacuum valve and snap throttle to 2500 RPM.
should read about 2-5 in vacuum

To test the computer, you can use a test light across the EVR wiring connectors and dump the codes. When you dump the codes, the computer does a self test that toggles every relay/actuator/solenoid on and off. When this happens, the test light will flicker.

Late Model Restoration has the Ford Racing M-12071-N302 kit with the EGR valve & sensor along with the ACT & ECT sensors for $45. See * * * N/A * * * 86-93 SENSOR KIT, 5.0L EFI, INCLUDES EGR VALVE & SENSOR, COOLANT TEMP SENSOR, & AIR CHARGE TEMP SENSOR MUSTANG for more details


Thermactor Air System
Some review of how it works...

The Thermactor air pump (smog pump) supplies air to the heads or catalytic converters. This air helps break down the excess HC (hydrocarbons) and CO (carbon monoxide). The air supplied to the catalytic converters helps create the catalytic reaction that changes the HC & CO into CO2 and water vapor. Catalytic converters on 5.0 Mustangs are designed to use the extra air provided by the smog pump. Without the extra air, the catalytic converters will clog and fail.

The Thermactor air pump draws air from an inlet filter in the front of the pump. The smog pump puts air into the heads when the engine is cold and then into the catalytic converters when it is warm. The Thermactor control valves serve to direct the flow. The first valve, TAB (Thermactor Air Bypass) or AM1 valve) either dumps air to the atmosphere or passes it on to the second valve. The second valve, TAD (Thermactor Air Diverter valve or AM2 valve) directs it to the heads or the catalytic converters. Check valves located after the TAB & TAD solenoids prevent hot exhaust gases from damaging the control valves or pump in case of a backfire. The air serves to help consume any unburned hydrocarbons by supplying extra oxygen to the catalytic process. The computer tells the Thermactor Air System to open the Bypass valve at WOT (wide open throttle) minimizing engine drag. This dumps the pump's output to the atmosphere, and reduces the parasitic drag caused by the smog pump to about 2-4 HP at WOT. The Bypass valve also opens during deceleration to reduce or prevent backfires.






Computer operation & control for the Thermactor Air System
Automobile computers use current sink technology. They do not source power to any relay, solenoid or actuator like the IAC, fuel pump relay, or fuel injectors. Instead the computer provides a ground path for the positive battery voltage to get back to the battery negative terminal. That flow of power from positive to negative is what provides the energy to make the IAC, fuel pump relay, or fuel injectors work. No ground provided by the computer, then the actuators and relays don't operate.

One side of the any relay/actuator/solenoid in the engine compartment will be connected to a red wire that has 12-14 volts anytime the ignition switch is in the run position. The other side will have 12-14 volts when the relay/actuator/solenoid isn't turned on. Once the computer turns on the clamp side, the voltage on the computer side of the wire will drop down to 1 volt or less.

In order to test the TAD/TAB solenoids, you need to ground the white/red wire on the TAB solenoid or the light green/black wire on the TAD solenoid.

For 94-95 cars: the colors are different. The White/Red wire (TAB control) is White/Orange (Pin 31 on the PCM). The Green/Black wire (TAD control) should be Brown (pin 34 at the PCM). Thanks to HISSIN50 for this tip.

To test the computer, you can use a test light across the TAB or TAD wiring connectors and dump the codes. When you dump the codes, the computer does a self test that toggles every relay/actuator/solenoid on and off. When this happens, the test light will flicker.

Here's how to find the fix...
You guys with idle problems could same a lot of time chasing your tails if you would go through the Surging Idle Checklist. Over 50 different people contributed information to it.

The first two posts have all the fixes, and steps through the how to find and fix you idle problems without spending a lot of time and money. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions. You can post questions to that sticky and have your name and idle problem recognized. The guys with original problems and fixes get their posts added to the main fix. :

See when i apply vac to the egr the car doesn't stumble, but when i pull the vac line off it dies, thats what i can't understand

Have you both checked for internal air leaks in the intake manifold? What is the Ohms on your mass air meter? Measure that it should be around 8......

What codes are you getting? There could be a simple answer in the code dump, but you'll never find it until you dump the codes.

motocrossed733 said:

minedoes the exact same lawbreaker, we will get it soon I feel it, i will let you know as sooon as I do or please let me know as soon as you do,

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i will

claytucc3 said:

Have you both checked for internal air leaks in the intake manifold? What is the Ohms on your mass air meter? Measure that it should be around 8......

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INternal leaks? i've heard of them, but i've also pulled the intake and replaced the intake gaskets probably 8 times (for different reasons) and fig it'd do it right atleast one time. oh by the way its best to buy the multi pack . Anyway how would i check for that? And which wire to you measure on the MAf? is that when cars warm/cold?

jrichker said:

What codes are you getting? There could be a simple answer in the code dump, but you'll never find it until you dump the codes.

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codes KOEO 85,34
codes KOER 94,44,34

Code 34 Or 334 - EGR voltage above closed limit - Failed sensor, carbon between EGR pintle valve and seat holding the valve off its seat. Remove the EGR valve and clean it with carbon remover. Prior to re-installing see if you can blow air through the flange side of the EGR by mouth. If it leaks, there is carbon stuck on the pintle valve seat, replace the EGR valve ($85-$95).

If the blow by test passes, and you have replaced the sensor, then you have electrical ground problems. Check the resistance between the black/white wire on the MAP/BARO sensor and then the black/white wire on the EGR and the same wire on the TPS. It should be less than 1.5 ohm. Next check the resistance between the black/white wire and the negative battery post. It should be less than 1.5 ohm.

Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter.

Let’s put on our Inspector Gadget propeller head beanies and think about how this works:
The EGR sensor is a variable resistor with ground on one leg and Vref (5 volts) on the other. Its’ resistance ranges from 4000 to 5500 Ohms measured between Vref & ground, depending on the sensor. The center connection of the variable resistor is the slider that moves in response to the amount of vacuum applied. The slider has some minimum value of resistance greater than 100 ohms so that the computer always sees a voltage present at its’ input. If the value was 0 ohms, there would be no voltage output. Then the computer would not be able to distinguish between a properly functioning sensor and one that had a broken wire or bad connection. The EGR I have in hand reads 700 Ohms between the slider (EPV) and ground (SIG RTN) at rest with no vacuum applied. The EGR valve or sensor may cause the voltage to be above closed limits due to the manufacturing tolerances that cause the EGR sensor to rest at a higher position than it should.

The following sensors are connected to the white 10 pin connector (salt & pepper engine harness connectors)


This will affect idle quality by diluting the intake air charge

Late Model Restoration has the Ford Racing M-12071-N302 kit with the EGR valve & sensor along with the ACT & ECT sensors for $45. See * * * N/A * * * 86-93 SENSOR KIT, 5.0L EFI, INCLUDES EGR VALVE & SENSOR, COOLANT TEMP SENSOR, & AIR CHARGE TEMP SENSOR MUSTANG for more details


Codes 44 & 94 - AIR system inoperative - Air Injection. Check vacuum lines for leaks, & cracks.
Disconnect the big hose from smog pump: with the engine running you should feel air output. Reconnect
the smog pump hose & apply vacuum to the first vacuum controlled valve: Its purpose is to either dump
the pump's output to the atmosphere or pass it to the next valve. The next vacuum controlled valve
directs the air to either the cylinder heads when the engine is cold or to the catalytic converter when the
engine is warm. Disconnect the big hoses from the back side of the vacuum controlled valve and start the
engine. Apply vacuum to the valve and see if the airflow changes from one hose to the next.

The two electrical controlled vacuum valves mounted on the rear of the passenger side wheel well turn the
vacuum on & off under computer control. Check to see that both valves have +12 volts on the red wire.
Then ground the white/red wire and the first solenoid should open and pass vacuum. Do the same thing to
the light green/black wire on the second solenoid and it should open and pass vacuum.

Remember that the computer does not source power for any actuator or relay, but provides the ground
necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side
will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.

The computer provides the ground to complete the circuit to power the solenoid valve that turns the
vacuum on or off. The computer is located under the passenger side kick panel. Remove the kick panel &
the cover over the computer wiring connector pins. Check Pin 38 Solenoid valve #1 that provides vacuum
to the first Thermactor control valve for a switch from 12-14 volts to 1 volt or less. Do the same with pin
32 solenoid valve #2 that provides vacuum to the second Thermactor control valve. Starting the engine
with the computer jumpered to self test mode will cause all the actuators to toggle on and off. If after
doing this and you see no switching of the voltage on and off, you can start testing the wiring for shorts to
ground and broken wiring. An Ohm check to ground with the computer connector disconnected & the
solenoid valves disconnected should show open circuit between the pin 32 and ground and again on pin 38
and ground. In like manner, there should be less than 1 ohm between pin 32 and solenoid valve #2 and pin
38 & Solenoid valve #1.

If after checking the resistance of the wiring & you are sure that there are no wiring faults, start looking at the
solenoid valves. If you disconnect them, you can jumper power & ground to them to verify operation. Power &
ground supplied should turn on the vacuum flow, remove either one and the vacuum should stop flowing.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif

See http://forums.stangnet.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50636&d=1180923382 for a very nice drawing of the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) plumbing

If you have a catalytic converter H pipe, you need to fix these codes. If you don't, then don't worry about them

Code 85 - CANP solenoid - The Carbon Canister solenoid is inoperative or missing. Check vacuum lines for leaks and cracks. Check electrical wiring for loose connections, damaged wiring and insulation. Check solenoid valve operation by grounding the gray/yellow wire to the solenoid and blowing through it.
The computer provides the ground for the solenoid. The red wire to the solenoid is always energized any time the ignition switch is in the run position.

Charcoal canister plumbing - one 3/8" tube from the bottom of the upper manifold to the rubber hose. Rubber hose connects to one side of the canister solenoid valve. Other side of the solenoid valve connects to one side of the canister. The other side of the canister connects to a rubber hose that connects to a line that goes all the way back to the gas tank. There is an electrical connector coming from the passenger side injector harness near #1 injector that plugs into the canister solenoid valve. It's purpose is to vent the gas tank. The solenoid valve opens at cruse to provide some extra fuel.

It does not weigh but a pound or so and helps richen up the cruse mixture. It draws no HP & keeps the car from smelling like gasoline in a closed garage. So with all these good things and no bad ones, why not hook it up & use it?



Check to see that the canister line between the solenoid valve and the lower manifold isn't wet with gasoline

Well the smog stuff is off so i shouldn't care about those codes. and i wanted to remove the egr as well, but when i put the plate on the intake and connect the throttle body to it, the throttle butterfly (what ever the thing is under neath the throttlebody) would hit the intake so thats why i left the egr on

if i buy this will it eliminate the code 34?
RJM Injection Tech EGR Eliminators