turbo or centri blower for the new 5.0?

JymboSlice · Mar 20, 2011

hey, i cant decide whether or not to turbo or go with a procharger for my 12'. if i were to go with a procharger, it would be a stage II kit with the larger intercooler, D1sc, and a 12 rib belt. plus injectors, a fuel pump, and a tune ill get separately. IF i decide to go turbo, it would be one of hellion's kits with a 76mm billet wheel, ball bearing turbonetics turbo. with fuel injectors, a fuel pump, and a tune bought separately. the costs would probably be the same and this car will be a nice summer driver so the boost with stay around 7-8 psi. i already know ill need a new clutch as well so i got that covered.

just wondering what would you choose? procharger or turbo? No positive displacement roots style/twin screw blowers. especially roush. i dont want any of his overpriced "performance" crap on my cars.

thank you and dont flame me for not liking roush.

erichmess_ · Mar 20, 2011

WHY DO YOU HATE ROUSH?!?!?! BLASPHEMER!!!!

lol, j/k. I don't think you can really go wrong with either choice, but I would personally take the turbo. I've been looking at the Hellion setup myself as soon as I can afford it. I see a lot of Mustangs running around with S/Cs, and I like being a little different. Then again, maybe there's a reason I'm unaware of as to why there are so few turbo'd Mustangs that goes beyond less selection.

JymboSlice · Mar 20, 2011

i never thought of that actually? from websites and other forums they all say you can't go wrong with a turbo, but a few people actually have them.. maybe it is just the cost? who knows until ya own one

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 20, 2011

I guess if you were shooting for a car that pulled great (and sometimes inconsistent) numbers at the track and tolerable and still inconsistent, street manners off the track, I'd go with the turbo, or the D1SC....but make no mistake. You "can" go wrong with a turbo. I've seen plenty of so called "low cost" turbo options that were absolute junk. The only really good kits I've seen (Hellion, Turbonetics, HP Turbo's) reflect as much in their sale price.

....but man you're selling yourself short if you think Positive Displacement blowers are "overpriced crap". You'll never see the low end/mid range grunt, a more usable power band, or the excellent street manners out of any other power adder like you would a Positive Displacement blower.

I would never own a power adder car that wasn’t positive displacement blown that saw the majority of its time on the street. These new 5.0L TiVCT engines were made for them IMO.

JymboSlice · Mar 21, 2011

Gearbanger 101 said:
I guess if you were shooting for a car that pulled great (and sometimes inconsistent) numbers at the track and tolerable and still inconsistent, street manners off the track, I'd go with the turbo, or the D1SC....but make no mistake. You "can" go wrong with a turbo. I've seen plenty of so called "low cost" turbo options that were absolute junk. The only really good kits I've seen (Hellion, Turbonetics, HP Turbo's) reflect as much in their sale price.

....but man you're selling yourself short if you think Positive Displacement blowers are "overpriced crap". You'll never see the low end/mid range grunt, a more usable power band, or the excellent street manners out of any other power adder like you would a Positive Displacement blower.

I would never own a power adder car that wasn’t positive displacement blown that saw the majority of its time on the street. These new 5.0L TiVCT engines were made for them IMO.

never said all positive displacement blowers are overpriced crap. just ROUSH's stuff. kenne bell, whipple, the eatons, all good blowers.

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 21, 2011

JymboSlice said:
never said all positive displacement blowers are overpriced crap. just ROUSH's stuff. kenne bell, whipple, the eatons, all good blowers.

The Roush blower uses Eaton internal components. They make great power. Besides....you can usually find great deals for their stuff on Ebay if you don't want to pay MSRP on their stuff. I can't imagine you'll save any money buying a Kenne Bell, Whipple, FRPP, or the like though. Positive Displacement blowers are just more money in general.....and worth every penny IMO.

They’re not all big bucks though. There’s a RoushCharger for my F150 on EBay that I'm seriously considering right now. Advertising 112hp/112tq for $2,465.00. I can't think of any other forced induction set up that'll add that kind of power, for that little money. There are deals to be had…you just have to look around and be patient.

SkyRender · Mar 21, 2011

All three methods of forced induction have their strengths and weaknesses. You might want to do some more research and figure out what your goals are. Is this going to be primarily a street vehicle? Drag strip? Autocross? Road race?

dcrevenge · Mar 21, 2011

I did a turbo on my last car and if I had to do it over again it would be a SC. Don't get me wrong turbos are awsome, they just require a lot more stuff, they create lots of heat and just so many more things can go wrong. On the 5.0 I would do a twin screw or pro charger type.

erichmess_ · Mar 21, 2011

Gearbanger 101 said:
You "can" go wrong with a turbo. I've seen plenty of so called "low cost" turbo options that were absolute junk. The only really good kits I've seen (Hellion, Turbonetics, HP Turbo's) reflect as much in their sale price.

To clarify, I meant the Hellion kit specifically. I wouldn't go with a low cost turbo option, either. There are turbo set ups out there no one should touch.

And it's a muscle car, not exactly supposed to be well mannered.

JymboSlice · Mar 21, 2011

SkyRender said:
All three methods of forced induction have their strengths and weaknesses. You might want to do some more research and figure out what your goals are. Is this going to be primarily a street vehicle? Drag strip? Autocross? Road race?

i have a supercharger on my 2004 mustang which is street/strip and its pretty fast i guess. im mostly going to just drive the 12' on the street and maybe go to the track with it occasionally. I want the car to handle good as well, but i probably won't autocross it. i already have 2 supercharged cars, roots on the lightning and centri on the 04. The roots blower runs out of steam up high in the rpm range and the centri is just a pain in the a$$ to get the belt on it and doesnt have the torque i want.

the 335i i have is twin turbo'd and once it gets into the torque range it goes, so i like the torque at like 3k rpms. No need for it at 1k rpms like a twin screw blower.

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 22, 2011

JymboSlice said:
i have a supercharger on my 2004 mustang which is street/strip and its pretty fast i guess. im mostly going to just drive the 12' on the street and maybe go to the track with it occasionally. I want the car to handle good as well, but i probably won't autocross it. i already have 2 supercharged cars, roots on the lightning and centri on the 04. The roots blower runs out of steam up high in the rpm range and the centri is just a pain in the a$$ to get the belt on it and doesnt have the torque i want..

No offence dude, but you’re casting all Positive Displacement systems in the same light as an OEM Eaton, on a near 4,700lb pick-up truck, powered by a long stroke, torque oriented engine that was saddled with the same heads that were found on the 2V 4.6L Mustangs. No wonder it runs out of steam up top…it was never intended to spend a lot of time up there in the first place.

Modern performance oriented Eaton’s like the standard 5th Gen or Twin Vortices Series like the ones Roush used …or Twin Screw’s huffers like Kenne Bell/Whipple/Lysholm use are built with far more performance oriented goals in mind, in comparison to an Eaton MP112 that was designed to run 100,000-miles between oil changes.

That 5.0L TiVCT in the ’12 Mustang was built to breath. A hard spinning PD blower atop that engine will pull and pull and pull till the cows come home. No, it won’t have the upper mid and top end charge a turbo would, but neither does a turbo have the sledge hammer like grunt down low or seamless drivability that the PD blower has. Street cars thrive on low end torque..they depend on it. You’ll spend 95% of your engines run time in those regions of the power band…so why wouldn’t you want a forced induction system that capitalizes that aspect?

JymboSlice said:
ithe 335i i have is twin turbo'd and once it gets into the torque range it goes, so i like the torque at like 3k rpms. No need for it at 1k rpms like a twin screw blower.

Again, apples and oranges. You've got a stroker engine to accomidate your power adder. That 335 makes up for some of the lost torque in the lower regions that would wouldn't otherwise have with the smaller displacement engine.

And saying there's no need for torque in the sub 3,000RPM area's of the power band sounds like just the type of excuse you might expect someone who's vehicle won't make them in those area's in the first place. It's hard to miss it, if you've never had it.

Can you imagine how much of a dog your lightning would be if it didn't start pouring on the steam until 3,000RPM+. It would be a driving nightmare on the street.

The next you're lugging up a hill in low gear with your Lightning, briskly pulling away from a stop with little effort, or pulling out to pass a vehicle without having to shift into passing gear, remember how handy that low end torque is....and then wonder what it would be like to drive a vehicle without it!

It’s your prerogative to dislike Positive Displacement chargers if you wish (though you'd be doing yourself the disservice of basing it on the past experience of an OEM system) and it’s fine that you want to try something different by going the turbo route but don’t be surprised if different doesn’t necessarily translate into better.

I like the idea of tubo's for light weight weekend toys, or drag strip terrors, but I personally think they're an awful choise as a daily drivers....and would get tired of that non-resposive, peaky powerband in a hurry. My .02 of course.

SkyRender · Mar 22, 2011

The 3.0L Twin Turbo I6 in your BMW has variable turbochargers and computer-controlled wastegates to give it that powerband. A turbocharged Mustang will not act the same way.

You really need to do some research and figure out what you want.

JymboSlice · Mar 23, 2011

SkyRender said:
The 3.0L Twin Turbo I6 in your BMW has variable turbochargers and computer-controlled wastegates to give it that powerband. A turbocharged Mustang will not act the same way.

You really need to do some research and figure out what you want.

the bmw has small turbos so there isnt any lag.. thats why it has that powerband

and thanks for clearing that up for me

rickisyodaddy · Mar 23, 2011

YouTube - Fastlane 2011 Ford Mustang GT 5.0L Turbo

Something about that video made me what the turbo more than a centri.

I know they will react different, and that a turbo generates more heat and can cause more problems and etc... but personally, I feel that my 2011 Gt wants a turbo. I feel that the Mustang already has plenty of power down low and traction sucks due to it, so I would rather have my boost come in the mid and end of my power band. I also like the feeling of getting sucked into your seat the more you accelerate (turbo) vs the instant suck in to your seat and slowly getting out (centri)

I dont know if you picked up your 2012 Stang, but wait until you do before you decide. When you get it, go and get your feel for it. Take it out for a spin and have a heart-to-heart with it.

Everyone has different opinions. Some people will live and die by a S/C, some by a Turbo, some by N/A. Its all up to what YOU want.

That said.. Id get the Turbo

fiveohwblow · Mar 23, 2011

Gearbanger 101 said:
I like the idea of tubo's for light weight weekend toys, or drag strip terrors, but I personally think they're an awful choise as a daily drivers....and would get tired of that non-resposive, peaky powerband in a hurry. My .02 of course.

Interesting you say this. Turbo is the choice of BMW, Ford of Europe, Toyota, Diesel rigs, VW etc etc... I could keep going. The only supercharged cars I can think of come from svt and the new zr1....

If done appropriately, they are better manored and more quiet than superchargers. That being said, I have never owned a turbo vehicle and will admit that. I have my centri sc and love it, but want a turbo something fierce.

Youve had a lot of different power adders and vehicles. You in fact own all three! I say pick the vehicle that exhibits the manors you prefer most and go with that power adder done correct.

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 23, 2011

fiveohwblow said:
Interesting you say this. Turbo is the choice of BMW, Ford of Europe, Toyota, Diesel rigs, VW etc etc... I could keep going. The only supercharged cars I can think of come from svt and the new zr1....

If done appropriately, they are better manored and more quiet than superchargers. That being said, I have never owned a turbo vehicle and will admit that. I have my centri sc and love it, but want a turbo something fierce.

Youve had a lot of different power adders and vehicles. You in fact own all three! I say pick the vehicle that exhibits the manors you prefer most and go with that power adder done correct.

You’ll also notice that all of the vehicles you described above, are small displacement, higher strung 4 or 6 cylinder engines that make no torque to speak of in the first place….or diesels. Most of these engines need every ounce of horsepower they can get and can’t afford to give any of it up in production like a supercharger requires. You’ll also note that all of the applications in questions are sized appropriately to meet OEM and EPA regulations while making reasonable horsepower levels with minimal loss to torque and responsiveness in the lower regions…not hard hitting, power crunching numbers that most people associate with turbochargers. In short…they’re neutered!

That’s because in order to make those hard hitting, power crunching numbers, you need to step away from the small stature, conservatively designed OEM compressors and dive into larger displacement, higher flow versions with impeller and housing designs intended to maximize airflow and increase upper end efficiency. As a result, you don’t get this heavy hitter horsepower and torque figures without some compromise.

Take a look at the video above. Sure that Mustang has a beautiful exhaust note and sounds great screaming it’s way to 7,000RPM, but you can very clearly hear the hesitation and the dead spot in the lower region of the power curve when he stuffs the accelerator down…..and then the whistle and sudden rush of power moments later when the exhaust system builds up enough pressure to feed the needs of the large turbo and complete the run.

I personally HATE that feeling. When I want to jump on the throttle and move my vehicle, I don’t want it to have to be dependent on what gear I’m in, or how much exhaust pressure I’m building at a particular RPM. I like the fact that with my Eaton, I’m the one in control of my power delivery….and the amount of horsepower and torque produced and more importantly felt at any given moment are only governed by how hard, or how fast I push down with my right foot. Anticipating power bands and timing your pass is something you should have to do with gutless econobox’s…not high powered sports cars.

Not to mention if one thought wheels spin off the line was undesirable, try breaking loose at highway speeds when that hard hitting, power crunching, big displacement turbo comes on. I sounds fun, but it isn’t.

fiveohwblow · Mar 23, 2011

Gearbanger 101 said:
You’ll also notice that all of the vehicles you described above, are small displacement, higher strung 4 or 6 cylinder engines that make no torque to speak of in the first place….or diesels. Most of these engines need every ounce of horsepower they can get and can’t afford to give any of it up in production like a supercharger requires. You’ll also note that all of the applications in questions are sized appropriately to meet OEM and EPA regulations while making reasonable horsepower levels with minimal loss to torque and responsiveness in the lower regions…not hard hitting, power crunching numbers that most people associate with turbochargers. In short…they’re neutered!

That’s because in order to make those hard hitting, power crunching numbers, you need to step away from the small stature, conservatively designed OEM compressors and dive into larger displacement, higher flow versions with impeller and housing designs intended to maximize airflow and increase upper end efficiency. As a result, you don’t get this heavy hitter horsepower and torque figures without some compromise.

Take a look at the video above. Sure that Mustang has a beautiful exhaust note and sounds great screaming it’s way to 7,000RPM, but you can very clearly hear the hesitation and the dead spot in the lower region of the power curve when he stuffs the accelerator down…..and then the whistle and sudden rush of power moments later when the exhaust system builds up enough pressure to feed the needs of the large turbo and complete the run.

I personally HATE that feeling. When I want to jump on the throttle and move my vehicle, I don’t want it to have to be dependent on what gear I’m in, or how much exhaust pressure I’m building at a particular RPM. I like the fact that with my Eaton, I’m the one in control of my power delivery….and the amount of horsepower and torque produced and more importantly felt at any given moment are only governed by how hard, or how fast I push down with my right foot. Anticipating power bands and timing your pass is something you should have to do with gutless econobox’s…not high powered sports cars.

Not to mention if one thought wheels spin off the line was undesirable, try breaking loose at highway speeds when that hard hitting, power crunching, big displacement turbo comes on. I sounds fun, but it isn’t.

I have lost traction at near triple digits and yes, it scares the **** outta ya.

Essentially you said the same thing I did. Do it right, and it works perfectly and even meets government standards. If he was talking about getting a hairdryer large enough to blow 20 lbs efficiently I would have suggested otherwise, but these manufactures chose the turbo due to its efficiency and driveability. You can hardly tell these cars are boosted when done correctly. With only a 7-8 lb desire I say the turbo might be the best bet, but after that I would side with you on the PD blower. Street manors are the most desired thing here, and both a PD blower and turbo sit essentially at idle until you mash the loud pedal. Unfortunately the centri is always turning and without fail will alter driveability.

Now when you say sixers have no torque I would disagree, but thats a whole different thread. As for the same line of that argument, the v8 already has a decent amount of torque, especially for daily driving and off the line typical driveability. He seems to want a power adder for extra oomph, so in this situation any of the power adders would suit, I just think the turbo is better.

JymboSlice · Mar 25, 2011

rickisyodaddy said:
YouTube - Fastlane 2011 Ford Mustang GT 5.0L Turbo

Something about that video made me what the turbo more than a centri.

I know they will react different, and that a turbo generates more heat and can cause more problems and etc... but personally, I feel that my 2011 Gt wants a turbo. I feel that the Mustang already has plenty of power down low and traction sucks due to it, so I would rather have my boost come in the mid and end of my power band. I also like the feeling of getting sucked into your seat the more you accelerate (turbo) vs the instant suck in to your seat and slowly getting out (centri)

I dont know if you picked up your 2012 Stang, but wait until you do before you decide. When you get it, go and get your feel for it. Take it out for a spin and have a heart-to-heart with it.

Everyone has different opinions. Some people will live and die by a S/C, some by a Turbo, some by N/A. Its all up to what YOU want.

That said.. Id get the Turbo

"have a heart-to-heart with it." i wish i could, it hasn't come in yet! april 8th it will hopefully! i think i'm going to go the turbo route. i've always wanted a turbo mustang too. ive already driven the 5.0's and they scream on the top end, so a centri or a turbo would take Full advantage of that.

I also plan on getting a Boss manifold and a L&M throttle body for the '12.

chile02 · Mar 26, 2011

You cant go wrong with the Procharger, Im very happy with mine in my 02, even more so when dumb asses are trying to figure out why they just got their ass handed to them. If I had a stock 5.0 I would go with the procharger but because I have a Roush I have to get their blower to keep all Roush. Turbo's are bad ass but they are a little more expensive as you are aware and I have had problems with the heat manifold bolts breaking on me. due to the heat and pressure I had to tap them out, it got old and had a hard time finding bolts that could with stand the heat and pressure they make. So far I have had no problems with my twins in the SHO but of course they are factory turbos and the PSi isn't set very high. Good luck with your choice.

turbo or centri blower for the new 5.0?

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