Turbo to 331???

[rio95]

Hey everyone I haven't been posting much, but I thought I'd give an update on my car and talk about the possiblity of going NA.

This July I blew a HG. I tore it down swapped both HG's and put it all back together. I had at least one spot on one HG where it was blown. So I get it all back together, start it up and it runs fine, but it is still smoking and is going through coolant. So I parked it for the winter and took it off my mind. I'm starting to get the car bug though and am trying to figure out what to do. I at a minimum have to tear the intake off and/or HG's and try to figure out whats going on, but I'm pretty confused why it's still smoking.

Then I get to thinking about how reliable my car has been and I've been putting up with a lot of crap. Exhaust leaks, extra heat, driveability issues, not being able to replace plugs easily, extra weight, inconsistent track times and a lot of plug wire issues etc. I'm kind of tempted to sell the turbo stuff and build something like a 331 and try to put down as close to 400 as possible. It would be so much more reliable and I think I would just enjoy the car more. I do hate this idea at the same time though, because I do love the turbo and I've got my setup pretty nice. After getting the B&G headers and redoing my coldside and exhaust, the setup is pretty awesome.

I'd like to get some ideas down on a 331 or 347 stock block set-up. I don't think I need anything crazy for internals, but am willing to put the money where it would count the most. Anyone got any good ideas or input??

 

[rio95]

I'm starting to think that even with selling all my turbo stuff and related components I'd still have to fork out quite a bit of money to build an entire 331 or 347 and in the end have less power. I don't think that makes sense even though there are a lot of benefits.

I just want simplicity, especially in the engine bay and I'd like to get rid of all the weight. Decisions, decisions... I just don't think I can get rid of the turbo though.

I find it very hard to be very happy overall with any setup. It's like no matter what you have you want something different. I can think of some other people on here that I think get this same bug. haha

 

[HGFireHazard]

I understand that when things aren't going right you sometimes just want to throw it all to the wind and make a drastic change and hope the issues go away. Our cars can certainly be frustrating, especially with some of the items you mentioned above.

It might be worth while to give it one more teardown and take a look to see if you can figure out what's going on. I don't think there is anything wrong with exploring a new idea, especially a stroker, but if what you have is already pretty nice, maybe consider giving her one shot?

It's always something, I'm only 22 and I truly feel that way. However, if it wasn't 'always somethin', what would we spend our money on? In any case I wish you well in whichever you choose.

 

[millhouse]

IMHO, if you want to eliminate your head gasket issues….swap over to a decent set of aluminum heads.

A few years ago I hooked up a boost controller inline to my wastegates….backwards! Mind you, this was while I was running gt40p heads. After the gauge hit 18psi and damn near soiling my pants I developed an issue with lifting the heads under boost. This problem lingered through several sets of headgaskets/bolts/studs regardless of boost level. The block checked out fine, as did the heads. In the end, I sold the heads and picked up a set of used twisted wedge’s….and it was one of the best modifications I did. Since then, I have had no issues with head gaskets or lifting heads….and to add to that, I removed nearly well more than 50lbs off the front end. You see, the stock thin decked heads (gt40p’s included) are prone to lifting under boost…regardless of how well you seal them. It seems that like many of us, once you develop an issue with them….it won’t go away until you switch them out.

As for driveablity…..with the exception of the headgasket issues, that lies solely in your tune. There should be no reason why you couldn’t daily drive your turbo’d setup. Sure, underhood temps get a little hotter….but thank god we sit there. As for your spark plugs….honestly, unless you are changing them out every 3k miles (which there is no reason to do), it’s not that big of a deal. You should be able to keep them in there for 10k-15k miles or more (they are rated for far more than that). Another option would be to pick up some high dollar iridium plugs (as came with most Incon kits) and not worry about changing them for years. Of course, you could always swap out to an aftermarket k-member which would allow quick and easy access for plug changes below.

You want driveability? Get a decent set of heads and hardware & some iridium plugs with your tax return (as well as a good tune!) and call it a day.

 

[final5-0]

IMHO, if you want to eliminate your head gasket issues….swap over to a decent set of aluminum heads.

You see, the stock thin decked heads (gt40p’s included) are prone to lifting under boost…regardless of how well you seal them. It seems that like many of us, once you develop an issue with them….it won’t go away until you switch them out.

Very good info Sir

Several years ago and for several years .............

I lurked on many power adder sites

I saw so many peeps ... peeps that had done pa combos mind you

Say just like you did here .........

Old OEM Iron Heads .....
Their decks are too thin to give reliable results with boost

Grady

 

[Stopsign32v]

Sounds like my situation down to a T! I was h/c/i + turbo for a while on the stock shortblock. Blew a HG, then put on some Cometic gaskets and cracked 3 rings. Car smoked terrible.

Now I am building a stock block 331 that should make about 420-450rwhp N/A. Here is my build thread http://forums.stangnet.com/768581-pics-project-400rwhp-n-stock-block-302-a.html


Honestly if I were you I wouldn't dick around with a 302 anymore. It should cost you no more than what a 331 or 347 will cost you. Go find you a 351 shortblock or block and build you a 357-408cid motor. If done right it should be very streetable and still run 125-131mph N/A.

 

[millhouse]

Sounds like my situation down to a T! I was h/c/i + turbo for a while on the stock shortblock. Blew a HG, then put on some Cometic gaskets and cracked 3 rings. Car smoked terrible.

Now I am building a stock block 331 that should make about 420-450rwhp N/A. Here is my build thread http://forums.stangnet.com/768581-pics-project-400rwhp-n-stock-block-302-a.html


Honestly if I were you I wouldn't dick around with a 302 anymore. It should cost you no more than what a 331 or 347 will cost you. Go find you a 351 shortblock or block and build you a 357-408cid motor. If done right it should be very streetable and still run 125-131mph N/A.

You blowing a headgasket was a sign that something was awry with your tune. The fact that you threw cometic gaskets on it and cracked 3 rings simply proves it.

There are plenty of people running around on turbo'd 302 stock shortblock (and long) based setups as their daily drivers. If you get a good tune and keep the rpm low.....they can last a long time. To top it off, because you can keep the rev's down and maintain a nice broad torque curve....drive-ability can be excellent, as can fuel economy.

 

[rio95]

IMHO, if you want to eliminate your head gasket issues….swap over to a decent set of aluminum heads.

A few years ago I hooked up a boost controller inline to my wastegates….backwards! Mind you, this was while I was running gt40p heads. After the gauge hit 18psi and damn near soiling my pants I developed an issue with lifting the heads under boost. This problem lingered through several sets of headgaskets/bolts/studs regardless of boost level. The block checked out fine, as did the heads. In the end, I sold the heads and picked up a set of used twisted wedge’s….and it was one of the best modifications I did. Since then, I have had no issues with head gaskets or lifting heads….and to add to that, I removed nearly well more than 50lbs off the front end. You see, the stock thin decked heads (gt40p’s included) are prone to lifting under boost…regardless of how well you seal them. It seems that like many of us, once you develop an issue with them….it won’t go away until you switch them out.

As for driveablity…..with the exception of the headgasket issues, that lies solely in your tune. There should be no reason why you couldn’t daily drive your turbo’d setup. Sure, underhood temps get a little hotter….but thank god we sit there. As for your spark plugs….honestly, unless you are changing them out every 3k miles (which there is no reason to do), it’s not that big of a deal. You should be able to keep them in there for 10k-15k miles or more (they are rated for far more than that). Another option would be to pick up some high dollar iridium plugs (as came with most Incon kits) and not worry about changing them for years. Of course, you could always swap out to an aftermarket k-member which would allow quick and easy access for plug changes below.

You want driveability? Get a decent set of heads and hardware & some iridium plugs with your tax return (as well as a good tune!) and call it a day.

I'd like to point out that I have had AWESOME luck with the gt40p's. I have run 15-18 psi for two year and haven't blown a HG until this summer and the only reason it blew was becuase I was stupid and let my brothers friend drive it who had the car at WOT while it ran completely out of gas. So it is obvious why they blew. So aside from that they have been amazing with just the Fel-pro 9333-PT-1's gaskets. I mean I would even beat the crap out of my car on the hottest days in the summer non stop with no HG issues.

I'm obviously not lifting a head when all the car has done is sat in my garage and idled since I replaced the HG's. So aside from a crack or warped heads I'm not sure whats going on.

Also, don't think that I'm only considering a swap like this because of my current issue. It really doesn't have much to do with that at all. It's more of the overall picture and reliability of the car.

 

[rio95]

I understand that when things aren't going right you sometimes just want to throw it all to the wind and make a drastic change and hope the issues go away. Our cars can certainly be frustrating, especially with some of the items you mentioned above.

It might be worth while to give it one more teardown and take a look to see if you can figure out what's going on. I don't think there is anything wrong with exploring a new idea, especially a stroker, but if what you have is already pretty nice, maybe consider giving her one shot?

It's always something, I'm only 22 and I truly feel that way. However, if it wasn't 'always somethin', what would we spend our money on? In any case I wish you well in whichever you choose.

Yeah I just turned 24 in december and you are right, but I just bought my first house yesterday, so I'd prefer to stop dumping money into my car like I have been doing. I just want to maintain it and enjoy it with the money I already have into it. Don't get me wrong I will put money into it as needed, but not a crazy amount every single season like I've been doing.

 

[Black Stampede]

First of all you blew the HG in September bud, not July. But then again you were probably too drunk to remember.

We had quite the conversation about this the other day. Fact is simple cars are very appealing. Less is more. The other fact is your car's relative driveability has been garbage for awhile now. When you are WOT sure it runs fine but, is there anyone besides you and I that can drive it and not kill it every 3 minutes? Doubtful. I think you would be very happy with a powerful 331. I just hope to God my car ends up better off than yours.

 

[rio95]

First of all you blew the HG in September bud, not July. But then again you were probably too drunk to remember.

We had quite the conversation about this the other day. Fact is simple cars are very appealing. Less is more. The other fact is your car's relative driveability has been garbage for awhile now. When you are WOT sure it runs fine but, is there anyone besides you and I that can drive it and not kill it every 3 minutes? Doubtful. I think you would be very happy with a powerful 331. I just hope to God my car ends up better off than yours.

Yeah it's funny to think that we can drive it (especially me!!) and no one has a clue that it doesn't run almost perfect. But if someone else drives it that can drive a stick but not into sports cars, they don't stand a chance at keeping it running.

I do think it would be awesome to cut a few hundred pounds off the front end, which would make up for some of the power loss and I guess it could be possible to trap 125 with a good set-up and the nice thing about it is I think it would run that everytime I go to the track (for the most part). I mean it won't be like trapping 120 one week and 126 the next, which is what I'm used to. And the funny part is on the street you can even really tell the difference when it isn't in 125+ trapping condition.

I could always throw a 75 shot on the 331 when I get the power bug. haha

 

[Tom95gt]

I probably should stop reading this thread... i'm waiting for my turbo kit to come in lol

 

[TurboSnake95]

I have been running AFR 185's for a very long time on my old 302 and also my current 331, and have yet had a head gasket blow out even at 23 PSI, but I have broken many other parts of the car Side note: I will be upgrading to a larger 200+cc aluminum head with my tax return

All this aside It could be a few things causing this, just too name a few:

1. your tune sucks
2. your heads are warped
3. your block is not "0 decked" (beleive this is what it's called)
4. your driver mod sucks and you cannot lay off raising the PSI level.

**I have seen and met many a fools who get too greedy on the PSI level (ah what's ONE more PSI gonna do to it?) attitude without changing the tune and when it goes bad claim innocence (sp)


Also I too have contemplated and even tried to sell my car a few times, but it was always my wife who convinced me to keep it in the end (that and no solid buyers ), and I am happy I did.

Is the car paid off? Worst case you put the car in the garage with a cover over it for a year or two while you get your house stuff taken care of, then pull it out of storage and it will be like a new love affair all over again. and this will cost you nothing.

Anyway's hope your issues get worked out and if you decide to go N/A good luck with that too Fast is fast no matter how you do it.

Once you go Turbo, there is no going back!

Happy New Year!

William

 

[Stopsign32v]

You blowing a headgasket was a sign that something was awry with your tune. The fact that you threw cometic gaskets on it and cracked 3 rings simply proves it.

No genious it was a sign that I had head bolts instead of head studs. You're so smart.

 

[millhouse]

No genious it was a sign that I had head bolts instead of head studs. You're so smart.

Genius eh?

So you are telling me it was the bolts fault that you blew the first gasket set....and the bolts fault you cracked 3 rings?

Yep, genius!

That is of course....unless your thread was an attempt at heavy sarcasm, in which case tells us nothing.

 

[Pokageek]

I have been running AFR 185's for a very long time on my old 302 and also my current 331, and have yet had a head gasket blow out even at 23 PSI, but I have broken many other parts of the car Side note: I will be upgrading to a larger 200+cc aluminum head with my tax return

All this aside It could be a few things causing this, just too name a few:

1. your tune sucks
2. your heads are warped
3. your block is not "0 decked" (beleive this is what it's called)
4. your driver mod sucks and you cannot lay off raising the PSI level.

**I have seen and met many a fools who get too greedy on the PSI level (ah what's ONE more PSI gonna do to it?) attitude without changing the tune and when it goes bad claim innocence (sp)


Also I too have contemplated and even tried to sell my car a few times, but it was always my wife who convinced me to keep it in the end (that and no solid buyers ), and I am happy I did.

Is the car paid off? Worst case you put the car in the garage with a cover over it for a year or two while you get your house stuff taken care of, then pull it out of storage and it will be like a new love affair all over again. and this will cost you nothing.

Anyway's hope your issues get worked out and if you decide to go N/A good luck with that too Fast is fast no matter how you do it.

Once you go Turbo, there is no going back!



William

DING! Winner. Been ther and done that with a more forgiving car tho... Had to mill the head and metal HG and stop raising the psi without a perfect tune. I did all that.

 

[Black Stampede]

I have been running AFR 185's for a very long time on my old 302 and also my current 331, and have yet had a head gasket blow out even at 23 PSI, but I have broken many other parts of the car Side note: I will be upgrading to a larger 200+cc aluminum head with my tax return

All this aside It could be a few things causing this, just too name a few:

1. your tune sucks
2. your heads are warped
3. your block is not "0 decked" (beleive this is what it's called)
4. your driver mod sucks and you cannot lay off raising the PSI level.

**I have seen and met many a fools who get too greedy on the PSI level (ah what's ONE more PSI gonna do to it?) attitude without changing the tune and when it goes bad claim innocence (sp)


Also I too have contemplated and even tried to sell my car a few times, but it was always my wife who convinced me to keep it in the end (that and no solid buyers ), and I am happy I did.

Is the car paid off? Worst case you put the car in the garage with a cover over it for a year or two while you get your house stuff taken care of, then pull it out of storage and it will be like a new love affair all over again. and this will cost you nothing.

Anyway's hope your issues get worked out and if you decide to go N/A good luck with that too Fast is fast no matter how you do it.

Once you go Turbo, there is no going back!

Happy New Year!

William

I think some of you are still confused (no offense) but none of this has anything to do with why he blew a HG. His HG blew cause some D-bag was driving it at WOT when it ran out of gas. The tune was fine. The car has ran great for a couple years now aside from the bad idle.

Now if you are referring to why its still smoking after the rebuild then #2 or 3 may be of consideration.

Flo Pro, I say do a sweet 331 with some nice gearing, gets some slicks with alumistars and tear it up. I think you will be happy. Another thing to keep in mind is what my brother once said and that is the fact that after you buy a house you realize that you have a much better investment on your hands and dumping money into your car seems seamingly far less important.

Now get home from that stupid auto show and lets hit up that double keggar.

 

[fastgtfairlane]

i say stay turbo or sell me your turbo kit. i love your car with the hairdryer on it. i have your video on my computer and your car looks so damn fun. if your gonna go na then go big or go home. when i say big, 331 or 347 isnt big enough. i mean 400 or bigger. you could build a 393 or 408 with a very streetable setup and put the same power as the turbo and be very streetable.

 

[Black Stampede]

i say stay turbo or sell me your turbo kit. i love your car with the hairdryer on it. i have your video on my computer and your car looks so damn fun. if your gonna go na then go big or go home. when i say big, 331 or 347 isnt big enough. i mean 400 or bigger. you could build a 393 or 408 with a very streetable setup and put the same power as the turbo and be very streetable.

The car makes over 500 rwhp so it would be a pretty rad all motor to match the power.

 

[fastgtfairlane]

i guess it depends on the setup itself. you could build a 93 octane 408 and do it. i say put some different heads on the 302 and keep the turbo