Turbonatore Questions ?
- Thread starter Mustang_RAK
- Start date
MagnaflowGT
New Member
- Oct 3, 2004
- 73
- 0
- 0
no it doesnt. I dunno how it works with everyone else, but i made my own, a prototype and it works for me just fine, and im working on one for exhaust. I dunno about the mass horsepower gains they are claiming, but i do have a lot better throttle response and my acceleration is a bit better. The thing is just aimed to pull more air in, but they messed up calling it a TURBOnator.
the one im making for the exhaust if designed to work in tandem with the air insert. i mean isnt the whole goal off a free'er flowing engine to gain hp? more air in, more air out, at a faster rate? i dunno how it works with V8s, but im driving a 4 banger around now, and its actually doing me wonders.
the one im making for the exhaust if designed to work in tandem with the air insert. i mean isnt the whole goal off a free'er flowing engine to gain hp? more air in, more air out, at a faster rate? i dunno how it works with V8s, but im driving a 4 banger around now, and its actually doing me wonders.
88_GT_5_oh
Sportin' a turbo 5.0 in Canadistan
i have 4... you know "quad turbonators" i am running solid 8's all day on pump gas and 20 mpg
couldn't be happier
couldn't be happier
z2o_what
Member
88_GT_5_oh
Sportin' a turbo 5.0 in Canadistan
Dbeck002
New Member
MagnaflowGT said:
I hope your talking about an electric supercharger because...
Whenever any fluid has to change direction it slows down, the turbonator (the thin stainless steel apparatus) causes the air to swirl SLOWING it down because it goes from laminar flow to TURBULENT flow which is much slower. For high performance engines slow air = poopoo. Our air/fuel mixtures are already amazing since we have injectors to mist the fuel for us. So what you are feeling from the turbonator is in your head.
I can see it working for small carb'd engine that are on its last legs, but for even a lightly modded fox it will just hurt performance for the above reason.
Dbeck002 said:
I hope your not saying that an electric supercharger is worth while. Maybe I misunderstood the joke?
I agree with your conclusion (that this device is useless), but I think it is important to clear up a few things. Bear with me, this will be tough wilthout using diagrams.
Laminar flow produces less drag... to a point. Laminar flow is more efficient when the boundary layer is small. The boundary layer is the layer of air closest to the object which the air is flowing over. In the boundary layer the velocity of the air will degrade as it gets closer to the object. The air closest to the object will have near zero velocity and the air farthest from the object will have the greatest velocity. However, the boundary layer gets thicker as it travels farther along the object. This means that after moving along an object for 6" the boundary layer is still small, but after 60" it will be larger. The boundary layer can be thought of as high turbulence. So as the boundary layer gets larger aero drag increases. After a certain distance of laminar flow, it will become beneficial to introduce some disruption of the boundary layer. I think this is the objective of this device, but the boundary layer should not grow enough to cause problems inside an engine, where the direction and velocity of the air is constantly changing as throttle and valves open and close. There have been wind tunnel tests that showed that a small hill or valley on the surface of a long part can decrease the thickness of the boundary layer and reduce drag (which will mean higher velocity is possible) One last example... Imagine a long diamter of pipe with high velocity air traveling through it. As the air travels down the pipe the boundary layer becomes thicker, reducing the diameter of the laminar flow from all sides.
Tubulent flow can actually be beneficial to airflow. A few years ago I read an SAE paper on how head designers had been increasing tubulence ( and thus pressure) in the intake port of the heads to increase airflow through the corner just above the valve and past the valve. The increase in pressure helps push the air past the restrictive parts of the intake runner. How it works deals with the angle of the floor and the roof of the runner. Not all of the details were revealed, but this would appear to be a good explanation as to why an unexperienced person can port his heads and get worse performance than in the stock condition. Actually, a supercharger and a turbo will both slow air by forcing it to change direction. In doing so though there is an increase in pressure which will help more than velocity in getting air past restrictions and into the cylinder. Increasing velocity will produce gains but not to the extent that increasing pressure will. Also keep in mind that it is TURBULENCE that gets the fuel into smaller particles. What comes out of the fuel injectors is actually rather chunky. This is why some professional head porters will not polish an intake runner (but this is still a heavily debated subject).
Just wanted to share what I have learned over the years.
There is no way I would ever buy one of these. But, if given to me I would put it on just so I could see the results for myself.
.
MagnaflowGT
New Member
- Oct 3, 2004
- 73
- 0
- 0
so i guess the people on the "turbonator" website, and such are just making up testimonials..? hmm..
anyway, so the turbonator is a dud?
what about the electric supercharger, is that any good, especially since im in a 4.
anyway, so the turbonator is a dud?
what about the electric supercharger, is that any good, especially since im in a 4.
MagnaflowGT said:
You're right, who can argue with a comment like this...
"After The Turbonator was installed, my car's overall response and torque was much improved. I'm getting about 30 more miles per tank and at least 10% more power, probably more."
-Chris Bowles, Hawthorn, California
At least 10% more power? Probably more?
Don't expect anything like what you read on that site. The company is trying to sell product.
I saw your sig. How did you measure your throttle response. Just have to ask cause I found a great increase in throttle response when I changed the plugs and adjusted the timing.
If you are completely sold on this thing great, but I have to question the quality of this product.
Please explain to me exactly how it works! Their site left me to my imagination. How does if function?
I would say that you would probably get a better performance increase out of a CAI.
MagnaflowGT
New Member
- Oct 3, 2004
- 73
- 0
- 0
it wasnt a very technical way of doing it. No im not completely sold on the idea, but as far as my gas goes, i do have better mileage, but i didntmake mine like that on the site.
It just revs faster than it did before...
It just revs faster than it did before...
z9_87
New Member
I think the electric superchargers would be great... if they could get em to run at say what 100,000rpms to actauly move air w/ their cheap ass blades. (Friend bought one, I laughed)
I mean why not stick a blow drier up your intake or just a mini fan?
I mean why not stick a blow drier up your intake or just a mini fan?
z9_87 said:
An electric supercharger would be great except for a couple of issues. First you have to create the electricity to run the SC with an alternator. The altenator presents quite a load on the engine itself. Then consider that any time you convert mechanical energy to electrical (and vice versa) there will be some loss of efficiency due to frictional losses, heat, etc. So you loose power converting mechanical (crank rpms) to electrical (from the altenator), then you lose efficiency again converting electrical to mechanical (the electric supoercharger).
Consider the efficiency losses added to the extra drag on the motor from a more heavily loaded alternator, and you would be just as well off to use a belt driven twin screw supercharger (the least efficient of the superchargers).
The other thing to consider is the quality of the components used in the fabrication of an electric supercharger. The ones that I have seen all had plastic blades. Any plastic will degrade when stressed mechanically, chemically, and thermally as would be the case in an engine. When these blades fail and break loose, they end up in the combustion chamber, costing you a motor.
Also, as mentioned above, the electric supercharger would need to produce boost psi at low rpm and rev high to produce boost at high rpm. While I am not very experienced with electric motors, I would think that acheiving this would be difficult.
I just watched Buckaroo Bonzai which got me thinking about pulling the 408w and replacing it with OverThrusters. Then again I could ditch the EFI and get an electro-nuclear carburator (I hear they're easy to tune). As far as I can see, either of these two options will provide the same benefits as an electric supercharger or a turbonator.
z9_87
New Member
Well I mean if they really wanted to, it could be done. They would have to make it of quality non plastic parts, and have something to tell it what rpm you're at so it can adjust boost accordingly. As far as alternator drag, a stock alt, is what 2 or 3hp? You would need an alt upgrade (big) but still at what 10hp max? If it made 6+psi, you're making more than 10hp with the thing so you still gain.
Currently however they are crap.
Currently however they are crap.
crazypete
All my crevices are greased.
There was a guy selling a REAL 5 psi electric supercharger (paxton with like 3 starter motors on the back to drive it) and it took a bank of 5 marine batteries to let it run for 20 seconds. This gives you an idea of the amount of electricity required.
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight/
" A friend who owned a starter/alternator shop helped him rewind several starters until they made one that produced 5-6 psi spinning 7000 rpm and drew 700 amps at 12V and 400 amps at 24V."
700 amps!!!!!!!! and then some !!!
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight/
" A friend who owned a starter/alternator shop helped him rewind several starters until they made one that produced 5-6 psi spinning 7000 rpm and drew 700 amps at 12V and 400 amps at 24V."
700 amps!!!!!!!! and then some !!!
crazypete
All my crevices are greased.
z9_87 said:
No way dude, 3 starter motors + supercharger casing plus ducting plus HEAVY guage cable running through the car PLUS 5 marine batteries = net hp loss after all that weight is factored in
bluevenom867
I will have images of molesting stuffed animals in
One thing- slow air though a carb is bad.The booster signal depends on velocity,turbulant air equals poor booster signal,witch mean less fuel gets pulled down.
No only that,but the thing LOOKS like a big restriction as well.
As for electric superchargers..what next,exhaust driven alts (like TURBOalts
)?
No only that,but the thing LOOKS like a big restriction as well.
As for electric superchargers..what next,exhaust driven alts (like TURBOalts
)?
z9_87
New Member
Well like I said, if you designed it correctly. It is possible to engineer a fan that spins 7000rpm's w/o using 700apms.crazypete said:
Blade pitch, use of a pully's, using an appropriate eletric motor, etc.
Dbeck002
New Member
vristang said:
I didnt read the entire textbook answer. But any gearhead knows that turbulent flow in an injected engine is uneeded. CARBED engines need somewhat turbulent flow since the air and fuel are mixed in a plenum before the intake runners. So a turbonator would just slow the air down dramatically in an EFI intake (test it yourself on a dyno with a modded stang). I'm not disagreeing with you but I dont know what the whole explanation up there was for.
