twEECer--starting a tune

Blackened302 · Feb 21, 2007

the new combo (see sig) runs ok off the stock setting, so i was thinking i could start from there and tweak a few things like:

idle
high/low fan starting temps

that's all i've tried so far, hehe. what are some other simple things i can try modifying?

a few details:

-i'm on the stock t4m0
-still on 19#ers, trying to see if the ones off my 01 exp engine are 24#ers (if so, i'll get the adapters)
-stock maf
-explorer throttle body
-no fuel pressure regulator yet
-timing's at 17*

what are some things i can do to maybe get some more fuel out? specific scalars to modify??

forgive my newbness. i'm doing as much research as i can fit in my schedule, so any help is appreciated!

tjh566 · Feb 22, 2007

Ok first off, Dont get the regulator, you dont need it with the tweecer, second off, set base timing to 10*, all tweecer readings and numbers are off of 10*

as far as adjusting fuel, I too am just starting out and havent really started tuning but go to the tables tab and use the "fuel_table_stablized_OL", these are air/fuel ratios and can be taylored to your needs, it is based on load, these adjustments except for the WOT ones will vary with the other tables because of closed loop.

Hopefully grady or someone along those lines will chime in with more detail and what needs to be done, im a newbie too.

final5-0 · Feb 22, 2007

tjh566 said:
Ok first off, Dont get the regulator, you dont need it with the tweecer, second off, set base timing to 10*, all tweecer readings and numbers are off of 10*

as far as adjusting fuel, I too am just starting out and havent really started tuning but go to the tables tab and use the "fuel_table_stablized_OL", these are air/fuel ratios and can be taylored to your needs, it is based on load, these adjustments except for the WOT ones will vary with the other tables because of closed loop.

Hopefully grady or someone along those lines will chime in with more detail and what needs to be done, im a newbie too.

There is more to this than meets the eye

The values you see in that fuel table are N O T your fuel ratio

They A R E ... lambse values

When you look at lambse values in your datalog ...........
You are looking at the commanded value for that very moment

Or in other words .......
That value is the value the pcm is trying obtain

Its almost a certain bet ...........
The true af ratio and the value in that table will not match
and
Lots of the time ... it can be pretty far off

Without a Wide Band .......
One really should take a hands off approach to ......
WOT fuel tweecs ... IMHO

This is one of the few areas one could hose up big time

Grady

tjh566 · Feb 22, 2007

ahh yes, forgot the word targeted, yeah actual values as grady says will be different, a wideband is a must!

Blackened302 · Feb 23, 2007

thanks for the reply, gentlemen. a few ?'s:

-i WON'T need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator because the tweecer will regulate it?
-what fuel stuff can i mess with safely without using a wideband?

thanks!

vristang · Feb 23, 2007

Punisher302 said:
thanks for the reply, gentlemen. a few ?'s:

-i WON'T need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator because the tweecer will regulate it?
-what fuel stuff can i mess with safely without using a wideband?

thanks!

You don't need the regulator because now you can control fuel metering via the Pulse Widths. Controlling fuel via the PW is more accurate than hosing around with a AFPR.

Look really close at your KAMRF values. This will indicate how close your MAF Transfer and Injector Slopes(etc.) are.
That is about all you should mess with until you have a WB installed.

jason

final5-0 · Feb 23, 2007

Hello Jason

Good to see you on here again

Grady

Blackened302 · Feb 23, 2007

thanks, jason.

only thing i don't understand about that is: isn't the stock fuel pressure regulator mechanical? if so, even if i mess w/ what you suggested, won't the stock regulator make it obsolete?

tjh566 · Feb 23, 2007

Not sure if I understand your question completely, but what is being done instead of raising fuel pressure is adjusting the pluse width, allowing more fuel to pass when the injector shoots in its fuel at the stock fuel pressure. Therefore getting more fuel to the motor. This is a much more efffective way of gettin more fuel to the engine and more accurate than raising the pressure is.

Blackened302 · Feb 23, 2007

ah, ok, now i understand what you meant.

so i look at my KAMRF values? where do i find those?

could you please describe how to edit the pulse widths?

sorry for all the newb-ness, but that's exactly what i am. trying to do as much research as i can, and i appreciate you guys' help.

blksn955.o · Feb 23, 2007

The reason you dont want a adj. reg. is that the stock eec and tweecer assume that they are at a stock setting...like the timing at 10*. Since the eecs programming thinks the FP is at 39# anything diff. sques the logs and causes the readings to drift more and you will end up chaising your tail.

KAMFR- Keep Alive Memory Fuel Reference, its the "memory" of what your computer is doing to adj. the fuel via o2's to hit the target A/F. You can nail down the non-WOT areas of the tune fairly close (a wideband for confermation) since it based off the o2's. The goal is to get the K's as close to 1 as possible without being 1, like .9998 or so. You can log K's specificly.

You should prob. work on the maftransfer 1st, then the inj. slopes...if you have stock inj. 19 or 24 since they are factory it is fairly easy to get the correct info. However, the big 3 are Maftransfer, Slopes, offsets. The offsets deal with the diff. elec. loads seen by the eec with an inj. and acc. on like fan/radio/ect, again if running a stock inj. this is fairly easy info to get.

I saw a post about timing tables...

there are 2 ways to skin this cat for the most part.

all 55's in all cells of the bdln table, MBT, and altitude table and using the base table to do the tuning changes.

or

All 55's in the bdln, MBT and making the alt. and base table match in the areas your tuning in. Those areas are the top two rows or the top two load rows...a good starting point is to have all the timing in at around 2,500rpm instead of the slow rate of advance...start off with alittle timing...dont just jump to 36*...start by adding at most 2-4* and see how it reacts.

Blackened302 · Feb 24, 2007

thanks for the info, but i must admit this is a little overwhelming.

my car is running like absolute crap right now--it's misfiring pretty bad. it'll buck on the expressway, even going at a constant 60mph, for example. once in a while, though, it's like a switch is flipped and it'll run smoothly.

we set the timing back to 10*, though.

i don't suppose it would be possible to make a few logs, then send them to someone, along w/ my combo specs (cam, etc) and have them make a calibration file and just load that onto a setting?

does the non-rt do any sort of logging or diagnostic, for that matter?

trying not to be down about this, but it's worrysome as the car's my daily driver.

vristang · Feb 24, 2007

Punisher302 said:
i don't suppose it would be possible to make a few logs, then send them to someone, along w/ my combo specs (cam, etc) and have them make a calibration file and just load that onto a setting?

From the mods you listed, it doesn't sound like you should be having any tuning problems.
With the limited understanding of your setup that I have...
I would currently guess a mechanical problem is causing your issues.
Pretty much a guess though

A couple of datalogs could be very helpful, along with pulling the diagnostic codes.

If you have a hard time transfering the datalogs, I can post them on my site for a couple of days. Space on my site is limited though, so I won't be able to keep them forever...
(I'm not sure how much help I would be in reading your datalog, but I will give it a go. I think others will be more helpful though.)

Grady,
I like it here.
You guys are great
I'm glad you tolerate me, and don't make fun of me for driving a 'Fox'

jason

tjh566 · Feb 24, 2007

no, the non-r/t doesnt do logging which is a very important feature and aids so much with tuning. without it, its like being in a 50'x50' room pitch black, cant even see ur hand infront of your face, looking for a penny.

final5-0 · Feb 24, 2007

vristang said:
Grady,
I like it here.
You guys are great
I'm glad you tolerate me, and don't make fun of me for driving a 'Fox'

jason

Jason

Just before I got my current 95GT ..............
I almost snagged a ....
very low milage, cream puff, cherry mint, no mods, completely stock

93 Coupe ... with ... t-5 trans (is there any other )

I was a bit late as it was way up in Yankee Land

Foxes are great

Your presence and info here is appreciated by me

Just cause you do things a bit differently (Fox Guy)
That don't make you ... Wrong or weird

I could have used you in a thread where I was trying to help
Nacho about two weeks ago with his Fox Pcm

I got in over my head in a heart beat

Perhaps you would be willing to give us your wisdom
With those Fox spark tables

Grady

final5-0 · Feb 24, 2007

Punisher302 said:
does the non-rt do any sort of logging or diagnostic, for that matter?

trying not to be down about this, but it's worrysome as the car's my daily driver.

Paul

Are you saying you got the basic unit

Grady

blksn955.o · Feb 24, 2007

1. upgrade to a R/T model

2. buy the program EA.

it will be night and day better for you with no guess work...and guessing is ALL you can really do with the base model other than a few little things.

Blackened302 · Feb 25, 2007

yes, sadly i have the base model. i got it for $250 off my cousin and planned on sending it in to get upgraded to the r/t but never did. guess i'll have to do that asap so it'll take the guessing out of a lot of things.

final5-0 · Feb 25, 2007

Punisher302 said:
yes, sadly i have the base model. i got it for $250 off my cousin and planned on sending it in to get upgraded to the r/t but never did. guess i'll have to do that asap so it'll take the guessing out of a lot of things.

Well Paul

We have talked about tuning with and without datalogging. I am a
firm believer that it gives you more options with it than without.

As I see it ...... if you are gonna modify the no longer valid
PCM values to reflect the changed data from all your hot rod
upgrades ........

It would be just natural to use that data from all those sensors
feeding the PCM to give you a realtime image of what is REALLY
going on at ANY given point in time

I can say from experience
Datalogging takes away all the unknowns about

W H Y ... is my Stang behaving like it is after my mods

Now ... it does need to be said Paul

That base unit will allow you to make PCM changes
and
For WOT Tuning ... which is the most simple of all tuning .....

You could get one of those WB's that has some built-in
datalogging and I gotta think you could be fairly effective
with a method like that.

Its when you start to get more involved in the drivability
issues ... that is where datalogging is so helpful

The great thing about the RT unit is you can include the
WB's data stream in CalCon's payload and have it displayed
just as ... or ... no different from ... your other 15 chosen
data sensor inputs

Its all together and all synced up for your use to review
AND
The coolest of all

You can easily export it to Excell or Other programs for
endless possibilities

Just my perspective I reckon Paul
but
Since I've always needed to know what makes things tick

The datalogging abilities of the RT allowed me to .....
Force that little silver box in the kick panel to tell me all it's secrets

Grady

twEECer--starting a tune

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