two 05 gt`s run at the track... [video]

Fast GTO · Dec 3, 2004

To be fair I am sure someone in an 05 GT will run 13.5, fact is a better driver gets better times, which is why we have GTO's in the 13.2's stock. An average driver for the GT and GTO is getting 13.8-14.1.

So what does this tell me? It tells me that the GTO, GT, and Mach 1 are all a drivers race head to head.

Now when the 05 GTO hits the street it will be a different story, but then again it costs more and is aimed at a different market.

But I think it is funny that the Stangers are using the old ricer arguments of "if I add a turbo, charger, blah blah, I will be as fast for xxx money", which is the argument civic users were spouting to compete with stangs back in the day.

Then of course there is the "my car is purrtier than yours"....

fivepointNO · Dec 3, 2004

GTP2GTO said:
Several GTO's have ran better than 13.5 stock and a few have ran better than 13.3.

SHOW ME!

13.1 actually is the best stock time on stock tires...

True, 13.18 and the same car ran 13.25 and NO others have made such a claim. I may not post on every web board available, but I read several of them.

I will race him in his 05 GT. Bring it on.

That's between you and him. I merely made the suggestion. Having done so, I hope your pathetic ET's are improved from anything a stock LS1 F-body can run. Otherwise, you're likely in for an embarrassing evening.

I personally saw him reeling in 14s.

14.0's, to be more precise. And that was basically covered in the video, no?

I saw a stock GTO beat a Stock 05.

So what? According to you, that's the only result we'll ever see. Most of us know the average stock GTO runs closer to 13.8 than 13.2, btw.

I saw Docs modded GTO wax the 05.

If .5 better on the 1/4 with a modified car is "waxing" the stock competition, I'll be able to live with it. Of course, my idea would be a 2+ second advantage.

I watched a 350Z that was stock beat the 05GT...so..... Even Nissans are outgunning them....

And you're positive the Nissan was stock because... You've spent every moment with it since the day it was built, or the car didn't "look modified" to your extrmely well trained eye???

So far, cause that is what is visible, real, and witnessed. Not hey I got a 13.6 with my 05 but no one saw it. Show me proof.

This is odd. You're the same guy who claims this car beat that car, and this other one did too, so it's REAL, but you insist on proof of something you don't like.

They are 14 second cars til I see otherwise and I think a majority of the population believes that also.

Untrue. See the above comment again. The majority of those interested have read better times and certainly won't believe the guy who claims 13's were common for LT1 cars over the mass produced articles they have access to. In other words, you ARE the minority.

Look at the trap speeds? 100mph? LT1s were trapping that easily.

Stock LT1's were absolutely INCAPABLE of 1.8 short times too. Get a clue. But according to you, they could run 13.7's or quicker when stock, and the better geared and more powerful MustangGT can't... Because you haven't witnessed it personally.

LS1s were trapping 103-106.

And like the LT1, the same chassis couldn't beg a good 60' time.

Where is your proof.

Where's yours?

So far I have the ball, the video is on here and I witnessed it too... End of story...put up or shut up

You have the ball... Time to PUNT! You've lied and been called out. You CANNOT provide proof to your LT1 claim, period, because it never happened as you say it did. Now you want me to prove what the car owner claimed. Ask him, not me. He's here, you know. Send a PM. But while we're at it, prove the LONE GTO that ran 13.18 did it while factory stock! You simply can't prove it. No way, no how. He's made the claim, shown a timeslip, gotten the acclaim. He can't prove the car was truly stock on that pass though, so we take him at his word. THAT, however, isn't good enough for you unless you LIKE it!

If you want to race him in your supposed Cobra or whatever, I'm fairly sure he'll line up when the track is open.

GTP2GTO · Dec 3, 2004

Atleast he showed a timeslip. I dont see even a timeslip for a 13.6 05 GT run.
I could car less about 60' times.
Trap speeds and ETs are what are important.
LT1's run high 13s, there are several of them, 100s. Even in the magazine tests they ran hi 13s...

Where is my proof, that mustang video is enough proof I think. Its the only shred of real proof in this whole thread and it says 14's...

I dont want to race him in my Cobra, I want to race him in my GTO.

My pathetic ETs? Where does that come from? You dont even know my ETs in my GTO.

Proof to my LT1 claim? Dont need to, thats a fact that has been around a long time. Mustang guys just never admit to it.

max2000jp · Dec 3, 2004

GTP2GTO said:
Several GTO's have ran better than 13.5 stock and a few have ran better than 13.3. 13.1 actually is the best stock time on stock tires...
I will race him in his 05 GT. Bring it on. I personally saw him reeling in 14s. I saw a stock GTO beat a Stock 05. I saw Docs modded GTO wax the 05. I watched a 350Z that was stock beat the 05GT...so..... Even Nissans are outgunning them....So far, cause that is what is visible, real, and witnessed. Not hey I got a 13.6 with my 05 but no one saw it. Show me proof. They are 14 second cars til I see otherwise and I think a majority of the population believes that also. Look at the trap speeds? 100mph? LT1s were trapping that easily. LS1s were trapping 103-106. Where is your proof. So far I have the ball, the video is on here and I witnessed it too... End of story...put up or shut up

WOW you are an idiot. Please do some research before opening your mouth yet. The 05 GTO ran 13.3@107 per C&D, hardly 12s. Maybe with some DR's an 05 GTO might hit 12.9 or so. The new 05 GT is a mid to high 13 car bone stock.

fivepointNO · Dec 3, 2004

Fast GTO said:
To be fair I am sure someone in an 05 GT will run 13.5, fact is a better driver gets better times, which is why we have GTO's in the 13.2's stock. An average driver for the GT and GTO is getting 13.8-14.1.

Easily acceptable to the common auto enthusiast. I won't even try to argue with it. Thanks.

So what does this tell me? It tells me that the GTO, GT, and Mach 1 are all a drivers race head to head.

Again, I agree, although the '05GTO has the advantage every bit as much as the '04 Mach1 or more. Of course, thousands will disagree with both of us here.

Now when the 05 GTO hits the street it will be a different story, but then again it costs more and is aimed at a different market.

I think the DBW will be an issue for most '05 owners, but the car will surely run low 13's commonly for any decent driver.

But I think it is funny that the Stangers are using the old ricer arguments of "if I add a turbo, charger, blah blah, I will be as fast for xxx money", which is the argument civic users were spouting to compete with stangs back in the day.

I don't think that's the case here, although I've seen it elsewhere. Keep in mind, the GTO in the video was modified and the Mutang was stock. There may have been comparisons in that light, but that's about it here. And on that note, the Mustang seems to respond better to turbos or blowers most often, due to it's lower compression and high rpm/tq peaks.

Then of course there is the "my car is purrtier than yours"....

Too much of that. I prefer the look of the Mustang over the GTO, but I actually like the "rather plain" look of the GTO, just the same. I like the interior look of the GTO better for the most part.

Final note: I've been reading many comments about the Ford quality not meeting the Pontiac. Frankly, I completely disagree. Ford quality has been consistently rated better than GM's for about 20yrs now. This new Mustang has some of the highest "Ford brand" rated quality I've ever read about. I don't see much about clunking, vivbrations, radio noises and the like about this car. There are already tens of thousands on the market and it's doing pretty well. I've recently read of problems with even the GTO. Problems ranging from radio noise to paint flake. In the end, I'm simply not convinced the Mustang isn't built better. That it's actually built in America is a bonus for me.

GTP2GTO said:
Atleast he showed a timeslip. I dont see even a timeslip for a 13.6 05 GT run.

Me neither, but he didn't video the race either. I don't know if he has a problem posting the slip, or that he hasn't. I haven't seen it though.

I could car less about 60' times.

Not me. In a drag race, they're "everything."

I dont want to race him in my Cobra, I want to race him in my GTO.

This doesn't surprise me. Infact, I'm convinced you don't OWN a Cobra at this point. But it's the Cobra you brought up running 13's in, etc. so at least use it if you've got it. I'd think he'll race you in both, one after the other.

My pathetic ETs? Where does that come from? You dont even know my ETs in my GTO.

It's perfectly clear where it came from... Your Mustang ET claims.

Proof to my LT1 claim? Dont need to, thats a fact that has been around a long time. Mustang guys just never admit to it.

Mustang guys don't "admit it" because it didn't happen like you claim it did. We know it, and so do you. But since you prefer GM cars, you'll lie and hope nobody catches on. Unlike you I'm sure, I actually raced them, and even drove several during the production run. Never saw a single one run 13's while stock, and NEITHER did you. Looking at places like Fbody.com and LS1tech.com and even FordvsChevy.com(I'm a member of all), we simply DO NOT see this as reality.

Think about this. Most of the 4th gen F-bodies weigh in at more than 3400 lb w/o driver. They make far less torque and power than their LS1 counterpart, which ran 13.5's or slower for most owners when stock. Take now, the '04GTO, which most run 13.8 or so while weighing about 250 or less pounds more, and make roughly 50more hp and much more torque. How do we now conclude the LT1 cars were as quick? We don't!

GTP2GTO · Dec 3, 2004

max2000jp said:
WOW you are an idiot. Please do some research before opening your mouth yet. The 05 GTO ran 13.3@107 per C&D, hardly 12s. Maybe with some DR's an 05 GTO might hit 12.9 or so. The new 05 GT is a mid to high 13 car bone stock.

Right... and Ford advertised how much in that magazine?

They have been tested and have ran 12.9s. Thats all...

max2000jp · Dec 3, 2004

GTP2GTO said:
Right... and Ford advertised how much in that magazine?

They have been tested and have ran 12.9s. Thats all...

Another ignorant comment. I am sure Ford bribed C&D to make the GTO look bad Does GM advertise in auto mags; very very stupid arguement

Who ran 12.9, Where, and when? I am calling

s1nger1 · Dec 3, 2004

I dunno about the 05 but I heard that chris johnson tuned one to 8.0 flat in and 8th mile. I have an 03 mach1 that ran 8.44 with a 2.1 60ft time and left 15 yards of rubber in 2nd gear with stock goodyears(my only mod is a superchip). If I put DR on my car there is no doubt I could run High 7's now I will say this my track is a hair short of 660 feet. I will say this it was a toss up between the mach and a gto for me. I bought my mach for 19k with 5k miles. I have measured a quarter mile and I am traping 107-109mph in that distance. I know that JMS either has are had an 05 over @ there shop with a new force induction system going in. I am wondering what it will turn out. I still haven't seen a gto run yet but 13.1 is still a damn good time. I am hoping for 12.30's sometime by then end of the year. I still have a few mods to go.

GTP2GTO said:
Right... and Ford advertised how much in that magazine?

They have been tested and have ran 12.9s. Thats all...

GTP2GTO · Dec 3, 2004

max2000jp said:
Another ignorant comment. I am sure Ford bribed C&D to make the GTO look bad Does GM advertise in auto mags; very very stupid arguement

Who ran 12.9, Where, and when? I am calling

Here is one review:

NewAgeGTO was invited to the 2005 GTO preview event at Bob Bondurant Racing School. There our Rep Jason Feuerberg was allows to drive the 05 GTO along with recieving racing instruction at the world class racing school.

ALSO-This is not meant to bash the 04. The 05 is a new car with many improvements over the 04. Please realize that many people are excited about this.

Below are his impressions-

The 2005 GTO is it better than the 2004? In one word yes it is! As a point of reference, I have owned two 2004 GTOs and have loved them both. With that in mind, I have no problem proclaiming the updated 2005 version as a definate step forward. So what’s improved? For starters there is the 400 HP LS2 straight from the Corvette. Then add to that braking and chassis upgrades, hood scoops, dual tailpipes exiting the way Delorean intended, and you get an idea of the serious intentions GM has for the 2005 GTO.

The devil is in the details, and the 2005 GTO has many detail changes. The improvements to the 2005 GTO include a new brake system featuring enlarged the front disc brakes and rear vented discs. The new brake calipers have the letters “GTO” on them, and are now painted red as in the Bonneville GXP and Grand Prix Comp G. As everyone knows, there is a new engine in the 2005 GTO and it is the LS2 straight out of the Corvette. It is nice to see the Corvette loosening it’s grip on GM’s highest performing engine (temporarily) for the GTO. The engineers told me that the car has 400 hp and 400 lb/tq and I have no reason to doubt that. One noticeable improvement in this area is that the engine now has electronic throttle control like the Corvette instead of the cable control that is in the 2004. The difference between the two is that in the 2005 the throttle is seamless as well as the traction control system which is much less abrasive when active. The traction control system last year had a very aggressive throttle relaxer which would have kicked your foot off the accelerator. In the new 05 it just feels like you have lost a little power while the computer works it’s magic to right your course.

While the power improvements are great, it is the GTO’s new exterior details that really grab you. Now as a no cost option, the hood comes with dual scoops in the style of GTOs past. This makes me wonder how many people would actually pass up the new hood, and how difficult it will be to do so? The hood also is not a true Ram Air type hood but is functional in the way that it breathes cool air on the mighty LS2. The rear end is different with the dual exhaust exiting both sides with a single 31/4 inch tip on each side. This change alone will eliminate one of the GTO’s most glaring original flaws. Also in the rear, “GTO” is embossed in between the two pipes with the name Pontiac taking the place of GTO on the trunk lid. There are two new colors Cyclone Gray and Midnight Blue replacing Cosmos Purple and Barbados Blue. These colors are a great addition to the already nice palette of colors that the GTO already enjoys. The Autocross package which was supposed to be a factory option is now going to be a dealer installed option which will retail for $2995. It will come painted in Silver, Red, and Black and also can come primered if there was another color that you wanted to spray it. The option is only coming for 2005 models and unfortunately will not retrofit for the 2004s. It includes: the grille inserts, a new spoiler, side sills, front clip and new rear fascia. The 18” wheels that came on the GTO show car will be available sometime in the Spring of 2005 according to GM executives. The wheels will come painted silver and not polished like the wheels that were on the Autocross car at SEMA this year.

Now to the driving! As soon as you sit in the driver’s seat you sense something is different because of the change in script on the instrument cluster and a bump in the rev limiter on the tachometer from 6000 RPM to 6500 RPM. Then you turn the GTO over and it loudly suggests something is different from 2004. The 2004 had a very distinct exhaust note, but the 2005 kicks it up a notch with a deeper and louder sound than the 2004. While most of it may be due to the new exhaust system, one can also suspect that the LS2 was throatier than the LS1 by design. The clutch is the same on the 6 speed manual as the 2004 so the transmission on the 2005 is the same as the 2004. The automatic on the other hand is now the 4L65-E instead of last years 4L60-E. This new transmission is an evolution of last years with beefed up internals to handle the 400HP LS2. The driveshaft, differential and CV joints have all been beefed up to handle the extra torque and horsepower of the LS2. It will be interesting to see if the quells some of the wheel hop complaints GTO owners had in the 2005.

After driving both, my honest opinion is that both the manual and the automatic seem to have the exact same seat of the pants acceleration. The engineers said that the automatic runs 0-60 in 4.6 seconds while the 6 speed runs 0-60 in 4.7 seconds while the ¼ mile for automatic is 13.0 seconds and the ¼ mile for the 6 speed is 13.1 seconds. The engine is just awesome! There is better low end torque on the LS2 than the LS1. The best way to describe it is that the LS2 fells like a LS1 that has been eating it’s Wheeties. We obviously did not test the GTO with gas mileage in mind, so I have no numbers to report. Since the LS2 is a technological evolution of the LS1, I would expect similar if not better gas mileage. Other than the LS2 the greatest improvement are the brakes which were simply awesome. I just kept slamming on them lap after lap and they would not fade. I can not say the same for the 2004 brake setup.

In conclusion, the 2005 GTO simply outperforms the 2004 GTO (or any older GTO for that matter) in power and braking. The looks have gotten more in line with enthusiast’s expectation with the new hood and dual exiting pipes. For those who find the stock look still bland, now you can pony up the extra dollars for the Autocross package and the 18” wheels. Speaking of price, though an 05 will cost you a few more dollars, for the improvements you get, it is easy to justify. Matter of fact, 2005 GTO worth every penny and then some! To sum it up, for 2005 Pontiac has taken Holden’s already solid engineering, injected a bit of brash American gusto in the power and style department, and created a car as worthy of the name as any GTO to rumble down the street.

That being said, is the 2004 also a great car in its own right? Yes. But the 2005 GTO is a good evolution of a car that will be with Pontiac for many years to come. If Pontiac wants to win the hearts of enthusiasts with it's new Goat, this is definatly a step in the right direction!

Fast GTO · Dec 3, 2004

The 05 GTO does not run low 13's, it runs high 12, trust me (I know you won't). Edit: I noticed you said for most common drivers.

And as far as the quality of the ford interior, yes for the most part you are right, but this GTO was built by Holden not Pontiac.

I'm in Germany and I can tell you for a fact that the GTO interior equals that of the BMW and lower end Mercs. The main problem the Goat has been having is with paint, and I'm not so sure it is a problem as much as different environment from Australia and the numerous boat/truck trips.

fivepointNO said:
I think the DBW will be an issue for most '05 owners, but the car will surely run low 13's commonly for any decent driver.

Final note: I've been reading many comments about the Ford quality not meeting the Pontiac. Frankly, I completely disagree. Ford quality has been consistently rated better than GM's for about 20yrs now. This new Mustang has some of the highest "Ford brand" rated quality I've ever read about. I don't see much about clunking, vivbrations, radio noises and the like about this car. There are already tens of thousands on the market and it's doing pretty well. I've recently read of problems with even the GTO. Problems ranging from radio noise to paint flake. In the end, I'm simply not convinced the Mustang isn't built better. That it's actually built in America is a bonus for me.

max2000jp · Dec 3, 2004

Fast GTO said:
I'm in Germany and I can tell you for a fact that the GTO interior equals that of the BMW and lower end Mercs.

Not the 04 I test drove at a recent GM event. It doesn't even come close to the quality in a E46 3 series. I know in Germany they have some "bare bone" bimmers, but the US spec ones are much nicer than a GTO. Same goes for MB.

zero3mach1dsg · Dec 3, 2004

i think the new 05 gto should have around 40-50rwhp more than the 04 model. (assuming that the engine is not underrated), so that would be around 340rwhp = 400hp at flywheel

in stock trim, the old car ('04) should be good for high to mid 13's, assuming a good driver, and high 13's to low 14's for the average joe rocket driving it.
we know goat owners are the best drivers in the world,(amazing, i think all of them went to same driving school since all of them can get low 13's out of their gto's) so they can get real low 13's with those porky pig cars, but hey, at least show the slips

been realistic, that car has the performance to go mid 13's, (one more time goat guys, even your own fbody ls1 friends would back me up here, so this is not BS, only FACTS), anyways, a 03/04 cobra is making around 360rwhp bone stock, it weights 36xxlbs and it's good for mid 12's with the right driver, i would say the new 05 gto should be good for maybe high 12's really low 13's with the right driver,power would be there this time... not that it wasn't before, but weight is their main issue.

A 05 gt in the hands of a good driver with the right mods and assuming some tunning, would give a 04/05 gto a good run for their money, the new stang hasn't showed anything special yet, but to be a consistant low 14's to high 13's car in stock trim.
if somebody feels i'm bsing, please show the slip

there is one with 4.30 gears and some mods including tunning that ran high 12's, (some magazine did it already), so the car would run 12's without touching the engine. goats running 12's are using FI or have been in the shop getting heads/cam packages....

willy_sc5.0 · Dec 3, 2004

Fast GTO · Dec 4, 2004

max2000jp said:
Not the 04 I test drove at a recent GM event. It doesn't even come close to the quality in a E46 3 series. I know in Germany they have some "bare bone" bimmers, but the US spec ones are much nicer than a GTO. Same goes for MB.

Only area I notice it lacking is in the inset of the headunit, which the GTO has a ****ty one.

max2000jp · Dec 4, 2004

Fast GTO said:
Only area I notice it lacking is in the inset of the headunit, which the GTO has a ****ty one.

Design, ergonomics, material quality,features, etc are lacking. The GTO has a great interior, but you really cannot compare it to a luxury car such as a BMW.g

onesticker · Dec 4, 2004

Doesn't this all really come down to personal preference?

mackey · Dec 4, 2004

trevor05stang said:
lololol, this is funny, all of this bs about the GTO P.O.S. looking good, and going anywhere as near as fast as a 03/04 cobra. Anyone living in the Houston area with one of the goats can meet me at HRP on Friday, Dec 17, and I'll bring an 03 Cobra (mostly stock), and my 05 GT, and I'll have a video camera. My buddy will be bringing his 04 GTO up there for the hell of it, cause he already knows better. Hopefully I'll see some of you GTO fanatics at HRP. Oh yea, did you notice what this website was: stang net.com. Everyone else is welcome to come.
Trevor

I like the look of the GTO better than the 05 mustang, but that is just me. Trevor have you ever been in an 03/04 cobra or a GTO? The LS1 that is in the gm cars has to be one of the best recent engines built in my opinion. LS1's aren't slow... You have to realize that. And this site is for everyone, not just mustang owners.

Snorman · Dec 4, 2004

onesticker said:
Doesn't this all really come down to personal preference?

No...because according to many (not all) GTO owners (like those in this thread), if you choose Mustang you're either stupid, biased, ignorant or poor. Because we all know how superior the GTO is to everything else on the road.
I don't mind GTO owners over here, in fact, I'm supportive of it. But GTO owners over here talking ***** about the '05, dismissing its performance as lies and ringers, and lauding their car as the best thing since the invention of fuel injection are nothing but trolls.
S.

ONZZ · Dec 4, 2004

GTOs Sucks, The GT looks nice, and it ran pretty good.

Cobra-Master · Dec 6, 2004

GTP2GTO said:
You obviously no nothing about FBODYS. The SS and WS6 were exact same performance as the non ram air versions. In fact, the fastest Fbodys were the Formulas and base z28 models because they were lighter. So the fact that a magazine ran an SS at 13.7 means there are faster Formulas out there...
Oh, and yes, the GTO 05 is a 12's car. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they are getting 13.3s out of the 04's. Magazines dont mean crap. And your buddy that ran the supposed 13.6? I saw him at the silver dollar track and never once saw it happen. I go there frequently. I saw the vid of the 14's and until I see otherwise, or get video otherwise, the GTO walked the GT...plain and simple

The WS6's have always outperformed the Z28's... I was an F-body guy for years before waking up and realizing Ford rules, so I know. Also, stock LT-1's weren't running high 13's stock. You really don't know anything, you've worn out your welcome here (as you've probably done on every other web board you go to). I'm sure the GTP guys are tired of you too.

two 05 gt`s run at the track... [video]

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