Two engine options, which for 650hp?

Marc_G · Dec 25, 2005

I have 2 engines just sitting at my house right now, complete but stock. One is a 302 and the other is a 390. The 302 is out of a classic mustang and the FE is out of a 70 ford f100, both with very low miles. I am building a drag race only 67 mustang, and before I buy another motor, I am trying to figure out if I can use what I have? Financially, which motor would be easer (cheaper) to reach 600-700hp, carbed of course? I am a nitrous junky, so the power adder will be the juice???
I have been kinda putting it off, but all my suspension is done, the interior is done, the fuel system is in the works, rearend done, and the tranny is most likely a c4, so its motor time!

Thanks for the info, Marc G

Dark Knight · Dec 25, 2005

Well, the 302 would be cheaper, but at 650HP, the block would last a very brief time... then split. You could base it on the 390, but personally, I'd stroke it...
FWIW, there are a few companies that make alum. heads for the FE engine now..

Might look at doing a 460, easy to get 500+ hp with iron heads and they're pretty cheap to build..

steel1212 · Dec 25, 2005

Yeah, I'm with dark knight on this one. Sell the 302 and 390 and then pick up a 460 for dirt cheap.

rbohm · Dec 25, 2005

steel1212 said:
Yeah, I'm with dark knight on this one. Sell the 302 and 390 and then pick up a 460 for dirt cheap.

:Word:

Marc_G · Dec 25, 2005

Thanks guys, maybe I will just go with the 460?? Quick question though, do you think the stock bottom end of the 390 would hold up to that much power. I heard the oiling system i the weak link, so other then that, how would it do?

Marc G

10secgoal · Dec 25, 2005

I'm not an expert on FE or big blocks of any type. But I do remember a build up a few years ago with a 390 where t threw a rod thru the block. No now stronger rods can be used. But they also had fan mail where people where saying the 600-650+HP they were trying to make was out of it's league for a stock block. Me personally, compared to weight and cost, I would look into a 351w. Parts are more,performance wise for BB. But they are easier to make big numbers. Spend a little more dough. make the same numbers, and weight less. I don't like the idea of a BB unless you are going full tilt balls to the wall.

rbohm · Dec 25, 2005

10secgoal you have some good points, but for the power level he wants the 460 based engine will make the power easier, and it wont stress the block and bottom end like the same power level in a 351w based engine. my feeling is that if he were looking for 100hp less, then definately the 351w based engine is the way to go.

steel1212 · Dec 25, 2005

351w with a man-o-war block I think could do it but it wouldn't be cheap. I've got a build on my dyno with a some what streetable 460 making 573/613 and it would do more with a bigger cam but I started to loose streetable power range.

dbdragracing · Dec 25, 2005

I was also thinking about going with a 351w for my '89 GT. Would the 351w be more capable than the 302 thats in my car? What modifications would I need to look at in the swap? Thanks.

57fairlane · Dec 25, 2005

dbdragracing said:
I was also thinking about going with a 351w for my '89 GT. Would the 351w be more capable than the 302 thats in my car? What modifications would I need to look at in the swap? Thanks.

what expectations do you have as far as power levels are concerned?

In response,
a 408w from a 69-70 block should be fine.
What is your budget? The cheapest suggestions have already been made in doing a 460 using the generic Cobra Jet heads and a fairly easy hydraulic flat tappet. Or you could 514 it . . . and have massive amounts of torque.

Next would be a motor 408w with generic AFR 205 heads/compXR294 ish, then probably a fully built 374 or something from an R/A304 block with the 4.125 bores. But then you get into full out race motor and the obligatory blue thunder heads or the "budget" kaase heads.

65ShelbyClone · Dec 25, 2005

If you're not willing to buy another engine, then the 390 will probably handle the 650hp alot better than the 302. If you can get an FE main girdle, it might be a good idea. Run a solid cam and use oil restrictors so the mains get more. Heads will be (I think) around $1600. I think using a 428 crank you can take it out to 406. You wont make 650hp N/A with a 390 unless you have crazy high compression or a power adder of some kind.

dbdragracing said:
I was also thinking about going with a 351w for my '89 GT. Would the 351w be more capable than the 302 thats in my car? What modifications would I need to look at in the swap? Thanks.

Unless you have a carbureted car, you'll probably get more info from the 5.0 forum since a higher percentage of them have EFI. If its fuel injected, you'll need a 351W intake, 28oz flywheel/flexplate, exhaust mods, and something done to the computer. Unless you have a Megasquirt or twEECer and a wideband O2, EFI is a pain in the ass IMO.

Marc_G · Dec 26, 2005

I am thinking about stroking the 390 block, I saw a kit for around 2k... ANd then buying decent everything else, heads, intake, exhaust, etc... ANd spraying, that may not make exactly 650, but near 600 with a good size shot and should be able to handle it, i hope!!!
If anyone has any info on this, or if it wont work please chime in, thanks!

Marc G

Dark Knight · Dec 26, 2005

http://www.fespecialties.com/HTML/EngPackage.html
http://www.strokerkits.com/390_fe_stroker.htm

bud4660 · Dec 26, 2005

You did the same thing I did. I got the car ready and then decided on what motor to use. I did the FE stroker. Not sure on the power level. But its probably where you want to be. I have well over 12k in the motor. I did the work other than the machine shop stuff. The one thing that is important to remember. How often are you going to work on the motor. The FE takes up all the room and is a pain to work on in the car. I debated doing a 351/427 windsor. I think if I was going to do it again I would go that way just because of the room and weight. I'm still sorting out bugs and havent gotten the motor running right yet. I have had carb and fuel pump problems. Traction doesnt exist yet even with running problems. So when I finally sort it out. It should be fun. But I hate working on motor in the car.
Check out the link for photo's of it.

Bud

RFMustangGT · Dec 27, 2005

65ShelbyClone said:
I think using a 428 crank you can take it out to 406.
QUOTE]

nope. 428 in a 390 will land you 410. mercury did that in the early 60s. 406 is more based on the 427 specs. still, all FE motors.

Me personally, I LOVE FE motors. good strong motors that people don't fool with too much. If the 69 motor that came with it was bad, I would pput a FE in there in a second. I would try the 410 FE route if it was me. These motors respond pretty well with mods. I have a 62 T-bird with a 390 in it and itcame with a 300hp rating from the factory. it had an option with 3-2s on it which gave it a rating of 340. I would build a mild FE like this: 390 block bored .30 over with a 428 crank (414 cubic inches), Edelbrock heads and intake, 750 carb, and a decent cam. right there would be a pretty hoppin motor. maybe a shot of nitrous and go have some fun. this set up would probly cost around 5-6k at the most I'm guessing with heads and machine work costing the most. only down side is Fe parts are as plentiful as the 302/351w and teh 429/460 stuff but you can still find it. edelbrock lately has really helped out with parts so you should be able to get good parts. I wish more people would use the FE motors cause they just have a certain sound and nature like no other motor. hope this has helped.

dbdragracing · Dec 27, 2005

Stupid question, but Im new to this....what is FE? Thanks.

Edbert · Dec 27, 2005

An "FE" is the old school big-block that replaced the Y-blocks and was itself replaced by the 385/lima series. The FE is the motor that won the high banks and was used in Cobras and GT40s.

The 351W is a brute for bottom end strength, the journals are larger than a big block. The down side of that of course is that they don't like to rev very much. It is quite easy and cheap to get a 351W to weigh less than a 289 and still have 427 cubes.

In my opinion if you want a race-only motor with 650hp AND reliability you need a race-block. Getting that much power from a stock block W/C/FE/385 is asking for a hand grenade. Look into one of those aluminum blocks that are rated for 1,000+hp and can handle 550+ cubic inches.

RFMustangGT · Dec 27, 2005

dbdragracing said:
Stupid question, but Im new to this....what is FE? Thanks.

stands for "Ford engine". pretty simple name.

RFMustangGT · Dec 27, 2005

Edbert said:
Look into one of those aluminum blocks that are rated for 1,000+hp and can handle 550+ cubic inches.

I'm pretty sure the new Genisis block is like one of the top dogs for FE motors now. it's an all alum. 427. I've never seen one but a guy that built a Y-block for me said they are NICE. those are nice if you want to pay the cash.

LMan · Dec 27, 2005

Built what Y-block? You don't hear about that every day....

Two engine options, which for 650hp?

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