UFC 94

dew22 · Feb 3, 2009

Gear I don't want to argue with you. Video shows the same hands with Vaseline used on the face being used to rub the chest shoulders & back. Do we know how much? no........... does it matter?..........no. It would take an extremely small amount on a sweaty person to make them very slick, you know that. It really doesn't matter what either one of us think, they've admitted to it, but say it was an accident. If someone pulls rubber guard on someone with Vaseline on their shoulders they’re going to drag it everywhere.

BJ didn’t deserve to win
GSP’s corner shouldn’t have done this intentional or not.

I just find it very hard to believe they had no idea, they’re not stupid.

1 last thing that doesn't bode well for this being an honest mistake is this isn’t the 1st time this allegation has been made against the GSP camp. I believe this is the 3rd time. I’ll try to dig it up.

dew22 · Feb 3, 2009

This is the last thing the UFC or MMA needs right now. Apparently St-Pierre's cornerman, Phil Nurse, rubbed Vaseline on his back and shoulders in between rounds.

The Nevada State Athletic Commission freaked out when they saw it and took the Vaseline from St-Pierre's corner. Following the fight, Penn's camp filed a formal complaint. There are still a lot of loose ends right now, but there definitely seems to be some tricky tactics going on.

It should also be noted, this is not the first time an opponent has accused St-Pierre of being extra slippery (Sean Sherk and Matt Hughes have also questioned GSP's slick demeanor and possibly Matt Serra, if my memory is working today).

Does this change the outcome of the fight? I know that's the question most are thinking about. It's impossible to know. Penn tried more than a few times to position his legs high on GSP's back, but they kept slipping back down. It's entirely possible the Vaseline impaired his ability to defend from his back and position to a submission attempt.

1. That does not mean he would have magically sinked in a submission and won the fight. It just means Penn was at a disadvantage he should not have been at. It is the job of the State Athletic Commission to make sure each fighter is safe from undue harm. In this case, they failed. Penn took serious punishment on the ground and has a right to be a little upset about this.

I've received some emails from readers who were there telling me that while this was going on Chuck Liddell was flipping out at cageside. Supposedly he saw what was going on and made a scene. One reader wrote, "I thought someone spit on Chuck. He was going nuts."

(The gif above is not the only instance or even a full clip of what happened. This is later in the fight (I think between rounds three and four) when the Commission had two guards try to towel GSP off, although they do about as horrible a job as you can possibly do.
Between rounds two and three, the camera was not on GSP's corner until the very end of the break. All they showed was the two guards flipping out and arguing with GSP's corner about the Vaseline, so I'm guessing they watched them do it again, then finally stepped in.)

GSP Corner Illegally Applied Vaseline to St. Pierre's Body During BJ Penn Fight | Bleacher Report

Venom351R · Feb 3, 2009

That puts GSP on the same level as Sherks Doping

Gearbanger 101 · Feb 3, 2009

Redline_351R said:
all done with very quick and discrete motions...to the untrained eye its the corner man doing his work as usual. To the others is very apparent CHEATING!!!!!!!

To someone who wants it to look like cheating, its going to look like cheating no matter what is going on.

I don't think the question here is whether or not it happened. The question here is whether or not it happened inadvertently or not?

TheDamned · Feb 3, 2009

lol... those americans, will do anything to support their homeland...

Venom351R · Feb 3, 2009

TheDamned said:
lol... those americans, will do anything to support their homeland...

lol... those canadians, will do anything to support their homeland

bynummustang · Feb 4, 2009

Boxers have used vasiline for decades, why is it even a question now?

Gearbanger 101 · Feb 4, 2009

bynummustang said:
Boxers have used vasiline for decades, why is it even a question now?

My guess is that it’s because some people (the Penn camp) just can't accept the loss. They went in there thinking he would dominate and the opposite happened...so they go desperate.

I find it funny that even after apparently receiving complaints from Sean Sherk, Matt Hughes have and Matt Serra in the past (supposedly) that nobody would have caught onto his apparent "cheating" before hand and payed close attention right from the get go. I also find it funny that in the video clip in the link, you see GSP's shoulders being massaged right in front of the two MMA officials (the guys in the red jackets on either side of them).

I mean....if the corner man was really rubbing Vaseline into his shoulders do you think he honestly would have continued to do so right in front of the officials? Especially if that was the reason they were up there watching him in the first place?
View attachment 272560
Obviously they watched him massage his shoulders and saw no evidence of the substance in question and let him go ahead. Otherwise why wouldn’t they have reacted.....called the fight?

Like I said, I'm not denying the thought some inadvertent transfer taking place, but purposely slathering him down....especially knowing they were being watched.....not likely! Its just an inflamed case of desperation on the part of the Penn camp.....nothing more!

Venom351R · Feb 4, 2009

bynummustang said:
Boxers have used vasiline for decades, why is it even a question now?

Its not that they used it its the manner in how they used it. There is no real advantage of putting it on a boxers body as there is for a MMA fighter b/c of all the grappling and submission attempts

rigamaroles · Feb 4, 2009

Redline, you're a Matt Hughes die hard, I remember that from old threads. You're still pissed GSP dominated your boy twice. Lots of people are. I can say in complete confidence that GSP will never get subbed from the bottom. He has the best positioning and top control in MMA, bar none.

The fact of the matter is that the result would have been the same. This discussion needs to go no further other than that GSP has all the tools in the game to beat anyone on any given day, why would he purposely cheat? He wouldnt. Period.

Penn and his fans have notoriously made excuses for his losses throughout his career. He is one of the most naturally talented fighters in the world, but he is also terribly overrated. Best 155? Very debatable. Best UFC 155? More likely, but I could debate that too. I see Florian taking his title when they fight.

Venom351R · Feb 5, 2009

rigamaroles said:
Redline, you're a Matt Hughes die hard, I remember that from old threads. You're still pissed GSP dominated your boy twice. Lots of people are. I can say in complete confidence that GSP will never get subbed from the bottom. He has the best positioning and top control in MMA, bar none.

The fact of the matter is that the result would have been the same. This discussion needs to go no further other than that GSP has all the tools in the game to beat anyone on any given day, why would he purposely cheat? He wouldnt. Period.

Penn and his fans have notoriously made excuses for his losses throughout his career. He is one of the most naturally talented fighters in the world, but he is also terribly overrated. Best 155? Very debatable. Best UFC 155? More likely, but I could debate that too. I see Florian taking his title when they fight.

I know, Im just giving banger a hard time b/c him and GSP are canadians

rigamaroles · Feb 5, 2009

Fair enough lol. I'm Canadian, too.

Gearbanger 101 · Feb 5, 2009

Redline_351R said:
I know, Im just giving banger a hard time b/c him and GSP are canadians

UFC 94

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