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Ugh, getting O2 lean codes now

  • Thread starter Thread starter LarsD
  • Start date Start date Mar 9, 2011

LarsD

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Mar 9, 2011
#1
  • Mar 9, 2011
  • #1
You guys might remember my thread from last week about my O2 sensors:

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/832989-check-out-my-o2-sensors-pic.html

Went to go to work and the car started running terrible today, pig rich at idle (O2's had literately 3 miles on them at this point). I got home a few minutes ago and pulled the codes. Got code 4 at first (idk what that is) and then I got codes 41 and 91. This was with the engine running and up to temp. I find it hard to believe I got two bad O2 sensors, but the car never threw O2 lean codes before I changed them. Anybody have any idea what might be going on here?

Thanks
 

Kdubslugga

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Mar 9, 2011
#2
  • Mar 9, 2011
  • #2
Well your sensors look very lean, Id ont think the problem is your o2 sensors. Your either not getting enough fuel, or you getting unmetered air entering the engine, EI vacuum leak. What is your fuel pressure set at?
 

LarsD

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#3
  • Mar 9, 2011
  • #3
I checked it a couple of months ago and it was within spec, however if I unplug my MAF the car doesn't die when I first start it up, the idle doesn't hunt, and it runs smoother. I tried cleaning the MAF with some brake cleaner (this worked a couple months ago) but it didn't seem to help once I plugged it back in.

You think it is possible that I wasn't getting any signals (or decent readings) off my old O2 sensors and when I put in the new ones they are reading right and helped unmask a new problem?
 

LarsD

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#4
  • Mar 9, 2011
  • #4
OK, another quick update. Car got some temperature in it (150ish) and it started to run rough like has been. I shut the care down and plugged the MAF back in, the idle hung a bit, and it started to run rough like it was before I plugged the MAF back in. I'm going to get some legit MAF cleaner and see if it helps any or not.
 

Kdubslugga

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#5
  • Mar 9, 2011
  • #5
Tell us everything you have done to the car, engine wise.
 

LarsD

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#6
  • Mar 9, 2011
  • #6
Kdubslugga said:
Tell us everything you have done to the car, engine wise.
Click to expand...

As far as mods? Pretty much nothing at this point. It has a BBK CAI, U/D pulleys, Taurus fan, 3G alt, Hooker shorties, and a Hooker O/R H pipe. Put a cap, rotor, Taylor wires, and new plugs in it about 1K miles ago. A new IAC 1K miles ago, new PCV valve, grommet, screen, and hose at the same time. Replaced a couple of the plastic vacuum lines that were broken with new rubber lines. That is about it.
 

Kdubslugga

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#7
  • Mar 10, 2011
  • #7
It sounds like a vacuum problem or Mass air related problem to me. Just guessing
 

LarsD

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#8
  • Mar 10, 2011
  • #8
Kdubslugga said:
It sounds like a vacuum problem or Mass air related problem to me. Just guessing
Click to expand...

I also think it is a MAF problem. I bought some MAF cleaner today to try instead of using brake cleaner like I have been doing. If that doesn't fix it, I have a Quarter Horse on the way which should let me try out that other MAF I have on the shelf. I also have another factory MAF off of my old 89 somewhere buried at my parents place from years ago, I might have to get down there and dig it up and give it a shot too.
 

jrichker

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Check the O2 sensor output voltage and O2 sensor wiring harness resistance...

Code 41 or 91 Three digit code 172 or 176 - O2 sensor indicates system lean. Look for a vacuum leak or failing O2 sensor.

Revised 22-Jun-2009 to include 3 digit code and wiring for 94-95 5.0 Mustangs

Code 41 is a RH side sensor,
Code 91 is the LH side sensor.

Code 172 is the RH side sensor
Code 176 is the LH side sensor

The computer sees a lean mixture signal coming from the O2 sensors and tries to compensate by adding more fuel. Many times the end result is an engine that runs pig rich and stinks of unburned fuel.

The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
"When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

Testing the O2 sensors 87-93 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Testing the O2 sensors 94-95 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a red/black wire) and 27 (RH O2 with a gray/lt blue wire). Use pin 32 (gray/red wire) to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter. Do not attempt to measure the resistance of the O2 sensors, it may damage them.

Testing the O2 sensor wiring harness
Most of the common multimeters have a resistance scale. Be sure the O2 sensors are disconnected and measure the resistance from the O2 sensor body harness to the pins on the computer.

The O2 sensor ground (orange wire with a ring terminal on it) is in the wiring harness for the fuel injection wiring. I grounded mine to one of the intake manifold bolts

Make sure you have the proper 3 wire O2 sensors. Only the 4 cylinder cars used a 4 wire sensor, which is not compatible with the V8 wiring harness.

Replace the O2 sensors in pairs if replacement is indicated. If one is weak or bad, the other one probably isn't far behind.

If you get only code 41 and have changed the sensor, look for vacuum leaks. This is especially true if you are having idle problems. The small plastic tubing is very brittle after many years of the heating it receives. Replace the tubing and check the PVC and the hoses connected to it.
A secondary problem with only a code 41 is for cars with an intact smog pump and cats. If the tube on the back of the heads clogs up the driver’s side, all the air from the smog pump gets dumped into one side. This excess air upsets the O2 sensor calibration and can set a false code 41. The cure is to remove the crossover tube and thoroughly clean the insides so that there is no carbon blocking the free flow of air to both heads.
 

LarsD

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Mar 10, 2011
#10
  • Mar 10, 2011
  • #10
Well I think I got it. I cleaned the MAF, and it didn't fix it. While the car was idling I noticed a hose popped off the charcoal canister (the hose with the valve in line on it, I can't remember what it is at this moment). I put it back on and started the car up. Still was surging and running rough. I decided to trace the hose and see where it went, and I was moving it around a I heard a hissing noise. The noise changed pitch depending on how I wiggled the hose. I traced it up to the upper intake plenum and saw it was a direct source of vacuum. Upon inspecting it, the hose was gummy and had hundreds of little cracks in it that I couldn't see until I squeezed it. I pulled the hose off and capped the intake. Boom, idles smoothed out and stopped varying. I have doubts about this being the cause of it dying when cold, but who knows at this point. Won't find out until later when I get to work. I tried to replace the hose, but there is a clip or something on the intake nipple that I can't see and get off. Enough for a cap, but not a hose.
 
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