Ugh... Makes me sick.

351CJ said:

Sometimes I really wonder why I waste my time here.

There is a huge difference between J. Mays making a mistake in the heat of the exitement at NAIAS and John Colletti telling a reporter in an interview that the M3 is the design target of the next SVT Mustang Cobra. But I guess some of you can't quite grasp the difference.

Click to expand...

Hmmm, I never really remember J. Mays or anyone at Ford saying that the 20K figure was a mistake. Maybe you have special access to Ford, or can read peoples minds through videos of people giving speeches

As far I'm concerned, the only proof we have of prices is what he said at NAIAS (or the magazine estimates ), because I haven't seen any official numbers from anyone from Ford, and until we do, we're just gonna argue like little school girls about prices, and it's useless and a moot point to fight over it. Speculation is fine, but arguing over prices with car we haven't even seen (SVT Cobra), is absurd. This is getting about as boring as listening to people complain about the mufflers being seen, or that the fog lights are stupid.

If you cant afford it, then it isnt the car for you, and you will be stuck with the GT or V6.

I would say if it is in supercar territory, then let it be.

It will only improve the Mustangs image and give it some respect which it lacked for ages(due to none of the magazines approving of the old Fox based chassis). Come on seriously, the 03 Cobra lost to the RX8 last year in its tests because of the "outdated" chassis.

I hope the new Cobra goes up and beyond of what a "regular" Mustang is.

Lets just not get TOO crazy with the price, and I will be ready to sign.

Pete

I still think that the 2006 Cobra is going to be around $35k-$36k.

yellow5.0cobra said:

If you cant afford it, then it isnt the car for you, and you will be stuck with the GT or V6.

I would say if it is in supercar territory, then let it be.

It will only improve the Mustangs image and give it some respect which it lacked for ages(due to none of the magazines approving of the old Fox based chassis). Come on seriously, the 03 Cobra lost to the RX8 last year in its tests because of the "outdated" chassis.

I hope the new Cobra goes up and beyond of what a "regular" Mustang is.

Lets just not get TOO crazy with the price, and I will be ready to sign.

Pete

Click to expand...

I agree. We have all given a lot of lip service to powertrain and, obviously, IRS vs live axle. There has been virtually no discussion about the chassis.
According to the hot rod and motor trend articles, torsional stiffeness will be increased by 100%. That is an incredible leap. You could take a current gen car, add strut tower brace, subs, k-member, torque boxes, etc, etc, etc, and wouldn't even come close to that number, and, end up with a car that was probably heavier to boot.

If you crawl under a BMW M3, arguably the best sports touring car out there, it really isn't anything terribly spectacular. At least on the e36 car, The brakes are not that huge and use a simple, floating caliper, front and rear. It has a strut front suspension and a really simple multi-link in the rear. These parts work incredibly well because they are pinned to a stiff, solid chassis. Having a good chassis to work with means more effective suspension tuning and fewer compromises.

It seems to me that people still have the current car on the brain when they speculate about the chassis dynamics of the new car. Why couldn't an 06 cobra give an M3 a run for it's money? The fox chassis was designed over 25 years ago by guys with slide rules for crying out loud.

i hope pairofnines is not thinking i said the foglights are stupid

Great thread!! I think everyone on this thread should get a 25% discount from ford for all these great ideas!!!

Omegalock said:

Whoa wait a sec....when did Ford say they were gonna compete with the M3? First time I'm hearing that one.

Click to expand...

Ford competing with M3???? That's absolutely hilarious!!!! >guffaw, snort< There's a whole world of difference!! Mass produced vs. virtually hand built, for starters!! A Ford executive thinking they will ever be in a class with M3????? Oh, that's rich!!!! >chuckle< Maybe they will run the price up there, but that's all...... >heh,heh,heh<

"Ford still needs a car to compete with the F-body"??? How did a post from 1996 get in here?

-Chris

The SVT Mustang will be able to compete easily with the M3. To think contrary is to seriously underestimate SVT. The 03 Cobra already competes rather well with the M3 on the track, and it's using a platform built and designed in the 70's. Just think what they'll be able to do with a platform like this one.

I really am almost willing to bet money that it won't be called "Cobra" anymore. The Cobra nameplate will be for the Shelby roadster, which will be competing with the Corvette. The SVT Mustang will compete with the Vette in the way that the Ford GT competes with the Viper -- yeah, it might be close on paper, but as an overall package, the Ford is the better deal.

If you want a cobra-class vehicle for $35k, you're going to see that in the special models. But the SVT brand is going up-scale in a big way.

In reality, the current Cobra makes around 415-420bhp. IMO, I would just love to see them bolt-on the GT twin-screw Eaton for more effecient boost. From what I hear, the aftermarket twin-screw is already in works for the 03-04 cobra so it might be easy enough to bolt-on to the new Cobra. I would imagine 450bhp should be easy enough. Regardless, I plan on adding one to my garage

I have never once seen anyone quoting 500hp for the '06 Cobra, only "a substantial increase from the current Cobra's 390 HP" in C&D and I believe "Well over 400" in another article. Neither implies anything near 500hp.

And when imagning the '06 Cobra competing with an M3, remember its probably going to be ~38K base, on a chassis shared by the likes of the Lincoln LS and the S-Type, not too shabby. I don't fully expect it to be the same quality on the inside, but as for performance, it would be nice to be in that league.

Also, they have made no promises to "compete" or "out do" the M3, Phil Martens simply said "BMW's M cars are serving as inspiration." So even though they could very well be shooting to compete, they aren't giving any promises.

BTW 65conv50, the Guffaws, snorts, and chuckles were a great addition to your post...

You are right. Ford is not going to build a 500HP Cobra Mustang. No way.

HairyCanary said:

No reason to take it personal, some of us prefer to deal in reality, that's all.

Dave

Click to expand...

Don't start spreading reality here. Speculation only. Has anyone seen any info on what the hp rating for the next cobra? Didn't think so. Anyone seen the price listing for it? No thought not.
Let's look at what we have some evidence of. The interview with Phil Martens on the Cobra. "We have to have a Cobra that is world class." This says to me at least. That they are not considering taking the Cobra name off the mustang. The Shelby Cobra concept is just that for right now. A concept not production yet. The cost of IRS and a more powerful engine is what propelled the current mustang up to it's price point. These will be taken into account when the new cobra get IRS and whatever engine they put into it. What the Cobra MSRP's for and what dealers want to charge for it. Are simply Irrelevant in this argument. The dealers in washington state still want $2-4k over MSRP. But they aren't always getting it. Then next Cobra could get a 500 hp engine. But it's not necessarily what it WILL have. It could cost $40k. But that price is still subject to too much debate. Tobe stating it as fact. Even with the Cobra moving upscale. That does not necessarily mean a large price increase. It's still going to be based on the under $20k V6 chassis. And while the interior may get slight changes. It likely will not deviate very far from a stock mustang. Other than the type of materials used. Such as leather not cloth.

shatner saves said:

The fox chassis was designed over 25 years ago by guys with slide rules for crying out loud.

Click to expand...

Heyy...I like my slide rule......

Mach460 said:

Heyy...I like my slide rule......

Click to expand...

I like my CAD station. The slide rule is cool too.... for scratching my arse with it.

Here's something for everyone to ponder (or chew me out on, haha).

In my opinion, I think it's important to remember the potential of a widely adaptable chassis. Lets take BMW for example. Now while BMW is considered a luxury car in this area of the world, BMW in Europe is like a Ford or Mercury here. Over there you can get one with cloth seats, manual locks, etc. But what BMW is very good at is capitalizing on potential. Think about the 3-series... In the states you can get the bargain basement, cheapest BMW 3 for 25 grand. There may even be a cheaper one overseas. The M3? You can juice one of those up to almost 70 thousand dollars! That is an incredible price variance for a single chassis, and as someone who drives cars for a living I can assure you there is no compromise either way. Not only is a base 3 series a fantastic car and worth the money, The M3 is an extraordinarily engineered car... handles like a go-kart, is in the sub-5 second 0-60 club, and has a high quality, luxurious interior with a great ride. My point is that if Ford can make a Mustang that costs even 50 grand, then why not? If someone will buy it, why not reap the benefits? You or I may not be able to afford it, but plenty of people can and will buy the best of anything, including a Mustang. The new Mustang will be great as long as there's enough product selection along the entire line, and by that I mean don't just make a $20,000 V6 and a $50,000 whoop-*ss SVT Shelby 500 Mach 1 Bullitt 45th Anniversary Corvette-killing whatever. As long as there's in-between models that attract buyers in all markets then what's wrong with that? I plan on buying one of the new Mustangs, and as long as they make one within my price range that I like and is fast, then I'll buy it. I won't be offended and appaled and crying "How dare they!?" if Ford makes one I can't afford and is better. Thats just the way it goes. In this day and an automaker has to maximize their vehicles and market them to a very wide range of buyers. This is how the Mustang has stayed around for so long, people from every walk of life will own one... from a 21 year old girl in college with a V6 convertible to a stock broker with an '04 Cobra convertible. That's whats gonna keep the Mustang great: variety.

-Chris