Ugh... Makes me sick.

KidTwist, you make a lot of good points, but do you think that American buyers are ready to spend $50k on an American car that has never even attempted to be world class? People with that amount of money trust BMW, but they don't trust Ford, or any American automaker. I think it would be hard to find the customers, not because the car is lacking, but because of people's attitudes of what a Mustang is.

You're aboely right, at that price the customers would be small in numbers. BUT, thats the whole point, it doesn't cost much to make that $50,000 car since it's an enhanced version of a cheaper one, therefore you don't have to make as many to cover the costs, you get what I'm saying? And anyways, 50k was just a number I threw out. Part of the top-of-the line model thing too is to get people to notice the car in the first place. A white mustang V6 with 15 inch wheels ain't gonna get people into a showroom or onto a website, but a slick Cobra will ;-)

-Chris

Built it and they will come.

shatner saves said:

Built it and they will come.

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Ford tried that with the 03 Cobra. They came, but not in sufficient numbers...

Dave

shatner saves said:

The fox chassis was designed over 25 years ago by guys with slide rules for crying out loud.

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So what's wrong with slide rules?

The world's fastest and still most awesome airplane, the SR-71, was designed with slide rules.

A computer is still no substitute for a good engineer.

351CJ said:

So what's wrong with slide rules?

The world's fastest and still most awesome airplane, the SR-71, was designed with slide rules.

A computer is still no substitute for a good engineer.

Click to expand...

I agree whole heartedly. That's it. I'm sold. When I go back to work, I'm going to march up to my boss and proclaim in a loud, steady voice that we should junk all our CAD stations, calculators, Rapid prototyping machines, CNC machine tools, forget about doing anymore FEA, CFD.....

And, after I get my a$$ laughed out of the building....

65conv50 said:

Ford competing with M3???? That's absolutely hilarious!!!! >guffaw, snort< There's a whole world of difference!! Mass produced vs. virtually hand built, for starters!! A Ford executive thinking they will ever be in a class with M3????? Oh, that's rich!!!! >chuckle< Maybe they will run the price up there, but that's all...... >heh,heh,heh<

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You BMW bigots really crack me up.
Besides engine assembly, what do you think is hand built on the M3? What do you think, Helmut over in the Black Forrest hand files each piston to its final dimension and polishes each wrist pin to perfection with some ScotchBright?

You seem to be forgetting that the M3 is nothing more than a souped up 325 that has a base price of $28K and plastic seat material . I just priced a M3. With all options you can sticker shock it all the way up to $68K or a mere $40K over the base 3 series model its based on.


So if a base Mustang starts at $18K Ford would certainly be able to turn it into a high performance SVT model that sells for $38K which is only $20K more than the base Mustang. And, you'll probably be shocked at the performance you'll see for that $38K.

Comparisons like this are funny. M3's a very refined car that is costly to modify, and most people don't beyond basic things like shifters and exhausts with them. Cobra's a brute power car thats more affordable and will take well to inexpensive mods, it's 2 totally different cars, all about what you like.

-Chris

BMW's mantra is to build "the ultimate driving machine". In a lot of respects, they do...

...and MAN, do you pay for it.

KidTwist51 said:

Here's something for everyone to ponder (or chew me out on, haha).

-Chris

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I'll have to agree with Chris here; and though I don't want to upset the lot of you already sick of that now dead 20K V8 thread, I chose to post this here to keep that thread dead and to support the idea that variety on a single chassis = big numbers in total = more potential for Ford to play with at the SVT level and boost the Mustangs Rep. Why would you ever NOT want that to happen?

Ford's got their groove back. This is going to open up the field between the GT and SVT, not so much put a given car out of reach but give us an even wider variety of platform levels. Price/performance will actually improve, as you are going to get that 400HP car for perhaps under 30K. At least one more piece of history can be added to the line by making this move if not two - Boss, Mach, GT350, GT500 (Shelby is in the game again). This middle spot could be a 2 year special model rotation. By all accounts this is going both ways, putting one more option in between the V6 and GT though it could be anything from a first year only offering to a fixture in the line (your guess is as good as mine - but sales will play a part; you can be sure.)

For all you pissed off people who can't have your 30K cobra, there will be 20 times as many happy customers driving that 20K V8 and 30K Mach/GT350 off the lot. What number pertaining to sales really matters to Ford?

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the speed channel is also saying the V6 and V8 will both be priced under 20 Grand so the possibility of the above fantasy just makes sense to me... and I'm a realist! I don't think the "mistake" would have gone this far this late in the game if it was a heat of the moment flub by Mays. You'd think these guys would have verified the info if it was not included in the press release info they were sure to have received just prior to or just after the show.

V6 + 2 levels
V8 + 2 levels minus the GT appearance pkg
GT + 1 levels
Special 0 levels / some options or Special Shelby Cobra 0 levels
SVT 0 level / some options

I'd say 5 Classes With up to 10 package levels and add/delete options is right where this car should be.

Add the vert and that's a 10 & 10

FORD: - "Have you played with your Lego set lately?"

Z.

This Saturday we are going to head over to our local SVT dealer and put a deposit down on a 2006 SVT Mustang/Cobra coupe. At this point all I know is that we will pay MSRP or less for a car that we know nothing about, other than it should be the ultimate Mustang made to that point. What do I expect? Price: $40,000 or less. Power: Low 400's. Fit and finish: Typical Ford, decent but not ubercar quality. I've owned a Mustang my entire driving life. I got my first at 16 and now, at 41, I currently have a 1993 LX 'vert and a 1996 Cobra coupe as well as a 2000 Taurus and a 1996 Bronco. I'm not expecting, nor do I want a BMW or a Corvette. I want a head-turning, tire-shredding, six-speed muscle car that sings through a great set of pipes. If it has a few weaknesses compared to $60,000++ imports I'm sure that the aftermarket will be addressing them right away. In any case I'm going to be at the front of the line.

Dave

How are you going to put a deposit down on a car that doesnt exist?

Let me be the first to give some premature congrats to Wythor on his new '06 Cobra

To add some old fuel to the M3 v. Cobra debate, don't forget that the '98 Cobra scored a TKO over the M3 in Edmunds' head to head comparison test. Here's a link to the article:Edmunds: BMW M3 vs. Ford Mustang SVT Cobra - Hot-Rod Drop Tops

And here's a quote from how Edmunds summed it up:

Final Thoughts

We should make it perfectly clear that both of these cars are winners. The BMW is a phenomenal drive, and while the Mustang SVT Cobra isn't as precious a gem, its flaws cannot diminish its exceptional value. Our staff simply values a fatter wallet more than unflappable performance. Ford SVT may not have put their BMW M3 benchmark on the mat with a stiff uppercut, but at $30,000, this round has been judged a TKO in favor of the Cobra.

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IMO the '98 was the best looking Cobra - love those wheels.

yellow5.0cobra said:

How are you going to put a deposit down on a car that doesnt exist?

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Its what we call a "waiting list". When the time comes to order, our order goes in first.

I'm just amazed at some of the thought processes going on here.

1. A lot of people have been complaining that 300 HP is too little for the GT and that they are dissappointed. I've seen some of these same people turn around and say that 500 HP would be too much HP for a SVT Cobra.

2. Phil Martens has publicly stated that the gap between the GT and the next SVT Mustang will grow. But many of you just dismiss his comment and keep saying that the next SVT Mustang will have 400 HP and cost $32K.

3. Ford has publicly stated that the 2006 SVT Mustang will have a substantial HP increase . The 03-04 Cobra has 415 HP ( more than the claimed 390 ) yet several of you keep saying that the 06 SVT will have low 400's. Somehow 415 seems like low 400's to me and that's what the Cobra has now. In Webster's dictionary substantial is defined as "considerable, ample, large. A substantial increse from 415 has to be 20% which would put it near 500 HP.

4. John Colletti has dropped several hints that the 500 HP Ford GT engine would be used in other vehicles. Wouldn't the SVT Mustang be a likely candidate?

Everything keeps pointing towards a 500 HP SVT Mustang that will cost close to $40K. I know some of you are dissappointed that its going to be above your price range. $40K is out of mine price range too. Remember that SVT's mission is to provide high performance and exclusivity. It appears that SVT would rather built 5,000 totally kick a$$ cars than 15,000 so so cars. Ford needs this sort of halo Mustang and that's what SVT is going to deliver.

But a lot of you keep ignoring that at some point in time there will be a special edition Mustang that is going to fill the gap between the GT & the Cobra. This one will probably have close to 400 HP and cost only around $5K or so more than a GT. This is a price & performance range that can have substantial volume, 15,000 cars a year and can be very profitable. Ford knows this too, so you can be pretty sure that they're going to deliver the Mustang you guys are looking for. It just won't be called a SVT Cobra.

GatorGreg said:

Let me be the first to give some premature congrats to Wythor on his new '06 Cobra

To add some old fuel to the M3 v. Cobra debate, don't forget that the '98 Cobra scored a TKO over the M3 in Edmunds' head to head comparison test. Here's a link to the article:Edmunds: BMW M3 vs. Ford Mustang SVT Cobra - Hot-Rod Drop Tops

And here's a quote from how Edmunds summed it up:

IMO the '98 was the best looking Cobra - love those wheels.

Click to expand...

That pretty much puts everything into perspective I suppose. let's just hope that if the Cobra is going to cost 45,000 dollars, the performance matches or bests the M3.

351CJ said:

I'm just amazed at some of the thought processes going on here.

1. A lot of people have been complaining that 300 HP is too little for the GT and that they are dissappointed. I've seen some of these same people turn around and say that 500 HP would be too much HP for a SVT Cobra.

2. Phil Martens has publicly stated that the gap between the GT and the next SVT Mustang will grow. But many of you just dismiss his comment and keep saying that the next SVT Mustang will have 400 HP and cost $32K.

3. Ford has publicly stated that the 2006 SVT Mustang will have a substantial HP increase . The 03-04 Cobra has 415 HP ( more than the claimed 390 ) yet several of you keep saying that the 06 SVT will have low 400's. Somehow 415 seems like low 400's to me and that's what the Cobra has now. In Webster's dictionary substantial is defined as "considerable, ample, large. A substantial increse from 415 has to be 20% which would put it near 500 HP.

4. John Colletti has dropped several hints that the 500 HP Ford GT engine would be used in other vehicles. Wouldn't the SVT Mustang be a likely candidate?

Everything keeps pointing towards a 500 HP SVT Mustang that will cost close to $40K. I know some of you are dissappointed that its going to be above your price range. $40K is out of mine price range too. Remember that SVT's mission is to provide high performance and exclusivity. It appears that SVT would rather built 5,000 totally kick a$$ cars than 15,000 so so cars. Ford needs this sort of halo Mustang and that's what SVT is going to deliver.

But a lot of you keep ignoring that at some point in time there will be a special edition Mustang that is going to fill the gap between the GT & the Cobra. This one will probably have close to 400 HP and cost only around $5K or so more than a GT. This is a price & performance range that can have substantial volume, 15,000 cars a year and can be very profitable. Ford knows this too, so you can be pretty sure that they're going to deliver the Mustang you guys are looking for. It just won't be called a SVT Cobra.

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Well....500 hp for 45K would make the absolute best bang for the buck automobile in the world. I guess that's not all bad....I suppose I'll just suck it up in the GT (or Boss or whatever) and live vicarously through Cobra owners.

Amen Z, that's just what I'm talking about. Dave, that's funny you mentioned what you're doing. As soon as they confirm (hopefully) that they are indeed making a Cobra or other with a sequential tranny and paddles I'm planning on doing the same thing. Funny how this all keeps going back to M3's, but I drove the M3 SMG a couple months back, which has a 6 speed sequential paddle shift. I tell ya what, I never though I'd enjoy flicking a couple paddles more than rowing the gears, but I'm a big Formula One fan and the way that car performed made that one of the most fun I've ever had driving a car. It grabbed the gears so fast and so well I knew right then and there if a Mustang ever comes with one I'll be first in line.

-Chris

wythors said:

Its what we call a "waiting list". When the time comes to order, our order goes in first.

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I got the same thing too. I went to Gervais Ford here in MA and they said if I get put a deposit down, they can pretty much gurantee I'll get the first GT in Massachusetts. They said that since they're one of the biggest Mustang dealers in MA, the usually get the first allotment of the line. Plus it helps that the Ford distribution yard for New England is 100' behind my house.

351CJ said:

Several places. It was first said in one or more of the many articles (Detroit Free Press, Automotive News, Autoweek, etc.) when Ford announced that it was re-shaping SVT - dropping the Focus SVT, not having a SVT Mustang for 2005, etc. Those articles all said that SVT is moving upscale.

2nd place. was in Feb C&D - Phil Martens comments:



I keep trying to tell you guys where the SVT Cobra is headed, but you apparantly don't want to hear it. But as I also said, you can expect a special edition Mustang to fill in the gap between the GT & SVT. Sorry if I've just blown anyone's dreams of owning a 2006 SVT Cobra, but reality can be a tough pill to swallow.

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You didn't crush my hopes as I really didn't think of owning a Cobra anyway and I figured the things would be fairly pricey. I just hadn't heard they would be trying to compete with the M5. Even though personally after reading that quote it reads more to me like they want to seperate the cars in quality and performance like the 325i and the M3 are. I mean I don't see how the Cobra could compete with the M3 considering it's several things the Cobra can never be merely based on the types of cars. But anyway if they are they are...carry on.