I read the old brake swap post thread and wonder if there is more up to date info on how to get better brakes AND keep my 4 lug 1991 pony wheels. I have the PBR stuff for the front, but I do not want to switch for the same size rotor. And I like my wheels. Any newer ideas for 4 lug brakes?
SVO front calipers on stock rotors, and then Cobra(93)/SVO/Thunderbird TC rear discs.
That's the best 4 lug stuff I know of, unless there are aftermarket upgrades.
Even though the rotor is the same size (10.8") the PBR caliper is superior to the fox caliper. You should get performance equal to the 13" cobra due to the large piston and pad compression area.
The conra brakes would shine in repeated stops due to the massive rotor, but in drag applications the 10.8" pbr would be preferred.
i went with the new bosch rotors and raybestos advanced design pads with raybestos pg rear shoes, she stops great. high speed stops are great also. pads do cause some dust. read about the pads, good stuff.
whitey
Thanks for pad and rotor info. There was a time when I would no longer put Ray worstest even in my trunk!!! I am glad that's changed. Back when I drove another classic, I had front drums, and needed rebuilt shoes. After 3 sets did not work right, we looked at what was on the shelf. 6 Raybestos brake shoe boxes contained 6-8 different lengths of material on the front shoes, and 12 different lengths of material on the rear side ones. We had to mix and match to come up with some useable sets and warranty the rest. Brakes do not work right with 4 different amounts of material on the shoes. (You are supposed to have a long pair and a short pair.) The pads from the time were sometimes as bad. I am glad product quality and qc are better.
I am hoping there is a 4 bolt set that fits inder these bigger rims. If not, how about the green stuff or other high perf. pads?
I re read 5l5's and 411's posts. Would the pbr rotors fit on my spindles and stock rotors to stay 4 lug? If I went with stock rear drums, what mc do I need? If t coupe discs, then what MC?
What will it take to get a 93 cobra set up right? If I could get mostly new cobra stuff for the swap it would be helpful. The local yards brag about only carrying 2000 and newer parts.
No. You're spindles would need to be changed. The Fox rotors/calipers/spindles are incompatible with the SN95 spindles/rotors/calipers. You need to change everything.
baer did make a 4-lug SN95 hub, but it's a very rare part and I doubt you'll find a pair used in the secondary market. If you did, then you could swap the Sn95 spindles on with the 4-lug hubs and redrill the rotor for 4-lug...but since that option is remote, not sure why I am mentioning it.
What do you want to do? Better braking? But keep pony wheels? They do make 5-lug pony wheels if keeping it stock is your concern
I have a note in to Baer Brakes and will post the response too. I'd prefer the availability of stock parts. But if I am upgrading, I want better braking with stock looks. I just do not want to replace good wheels if I do not have to. It would be different if I had 15" or 14" wheels that were ugly. (I was happy to replace the wire wheel covers on the 1979 I had.) If I have to buy a boat loat of parts AND new wheels, I will most likely spend the money elsewhere and buy stainless hoses and good pads and shoes.
To go road racing even once a year in this area, I would have to enter two years in advance. As far as weight reduction - loosing a few pounds of my weight is more of a factor than the front calipers. Aluminum heads would be a good investment though.
Just build your 4 lug brake system using all the best 4 lug parts available instead of trying to make some exotic system.
My opinion anyway.
SVO calipers, aftermarket drilled/slotted rotors, good pads, TC rear discs, and the proper master/distribution block for the system.... topped off with braided hoses.
Done.
73mm front calipers
SS braided lines at all 5 locations
rear turbocoupe disks (45mm calipers)
The TC setup uses stock 60mm front calipers and a 1" bore MC. Since the 73mm calipers have a larger surface area, a larger bore MC should be used to prevent a soft pedal with too much travel. A 94-95 GT/V6 MC would be a good choice, with a 1 1/16" bore. Your next option is the SVO 1 1/18" MC, but that uses 54mm calipers out back which is why i think the 1 1/16" bore MC is a good choiuce.
At that day...you've done enough work to almost perform an SN95 brake swap. So you could almost sell off your pony wheels, invest a few bucks and have a 5-lug setup with more potential future options
Auto trans 87-88 Tbird Turbo Coupes come with 3.73 gears and manual Turbo Coupes come with 3.55 gears. Cost is $125-$300 for the rear axle. Add another $100-$200 or so to complete the brake upgrade.
I choose 3.55 since I do more highway driving. Both ratios have 10 5/16" disk brakes with vented rotors as standard equipment.
It takes 2 guys the first day to get the old rear end out and the new one bolted in place. It takes 1 guy another whole day to do the brakes.
You will need a several sets of fittings, I recommend that you get them from Matt90GT's website, http://home.comcast.net/~mjbobbitt/mustang/page5.html. Read Matt's instructions thoroughly, everything you need to know about the brakes is all there. You need to be patient and follow all the internal links, and there are many of them. You will need 2 fittings in the rear to adapt your old brake tubing to the TC disk brakes. The fittings go between the steel tube and the caliper brake hose. You will need another set of fittings to make a 2 port to 3 port adapter. To make life simpler, just buy the kits from Matt. You could piece them together, but it's not worth the time unless you work at an auto parts store with all the fittings ever made.
You will need to drill the quad shock mounting holes 2” below the holes drilled for the Turbo Coupe mounting points. The bolts are metric, so don’t loose them or the nuts. A 15/32” drill should be about the right size unless you have access to metric sized drill bits. Going without quad shocks is not an option.
When you install the axle assembly you will need to leave the bolts for the control arms only finger tight. Once the axle and all the control arms are in place, put jackstands under the rear axle and under the front A arms. Level the car as best you can while it is on the jackstands. Then and only then tighten down the control arm nuts and bolts to the factory specs. This assures that there is no preload to position the axle up or down, it is preloaded to normal driving height.
You will need a proportioning valve, Summit has one for $40 + shipping.
You will need a kit (FMS makes the part) to gut the stock proportioning valve, Summit also has that, about $10.
You will need a new master cylinder, see Matt's site and make you choice. I used a 94-95 Mustang master cylinder. Note that rebuilt 94-95 Mustang master cylinders do not come with a reservoir. That means a trip to the junkyard and some more money spent.
Your brake pedal may be very hard and almost impossible to lock up the brakes. I had to replace the front calipers with 73 mm calipers from a 91 Lincoln Mark 7 to get the braking performance up to par.
Bleeding the brakes will require 2 people and some coordinated effort. I don’t recommend using you wife or girlfriend to pump the pedal – they get offended when you yell at them. I used a homemade power brake bleeder constructed from a garden sprayer and some fittings from Home Depot. It cost about $25 and was worth every penny. See http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?p=6143048 for details and pictures.
See http://www.mustangcentral.net/tech/brake.html for help with the emergency brake. The red words link to some very useful photos on how to modify the handle. The stock setup tends to lock up and not release properly.
All in all I have been very pleased with the results.
Turbo Coupe axle swap parts list:
87-88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe Rear axle
94-95 Mustang Master Cylinder with reservoir
Brake line Adapter fittings http://home.comcast.net/~mjbobbitt/mustang/page5.html.
3 line to 2 line brake fitting kit http://home.comcast.net/~mjbobbitt/mustang/page5.html..
Proportioning valve, Wildwood 260-8419 Summit or Jegs
Kit to gut the stock proportioning valve Ford Racing M-2450-A Summit or Jegs
Reuse stock brake booster – no changes needed with the parts in this list
73 mm front calipers from a 91 Lincoln Mark 7 (two calipers) local auto parts store
Emergency brake cable parts: Summit or Jegs or Late Model Restoration
79-92 Mustangs use: M-2809-A* Parking Brake Cable (need 2)
93 Mustangs: use 93 Cobra Ebrake cables.
All years use: M-2810-A* Parking Brake Cable (short cable that attaches to the parking brake handle)
I recommend that you use reman calipers and use the calipers from the Turbo Coupe axle for cores to return. The parking brake mechanism and the caliper slides tend to lockup and freeze
Identifying a Turbo Coupe rear axle:
1.) Measure the rotors - a TC disk brake uses 10 5/16" vented rotors.
2.) Measure the length of the quad shock mount arm and compare it to the mount on your existing stock axle. The TC quad shock mount arm is about 8" long if I remember correctly.
3.) Measure the distance between the axle flanges and compare it to stock. The TC rear axle assembly is 3/4" wider per side, or 1 1/2" wider for both sides. Fixing the added axle length problem:
If the extra width is a problem for your wheel and tire combination, North Racecars makes some rather expensive brackets ($160 +) which allow you to use the stock axles. See http://northracecars.com/Brakes.html
I heard back from Baer Brakes. I like the idea of their 12" rotors if I do not go with stock like upgrade parts. I could still contact SSBC, CPP suspension/brakes and MP brakes. Here is the info from Baer Brakes. .... We do offer an older system with 12” rotors and two piston alum pbr calipers. The system comes built on fox spindles with our 4 lug hubs. That system starts at $1195.00.
The PBR system is at close out price. We are working on a new system with our 4 piston caliper and 11” to clear the 15” and 16” wheels. That system will start at $1295.00.