Upgrading heads on 04 GT

01Steeda · Jan 20, 2006

yes you said it right Stage 1.. mine first of all are not Stage 1, and second my car dyno'ed 20 RWHP more than every other stock GT when it was bone stock. I dont know why.. but it did. I will have you a dyno sheet soon. until then believe what ya want to believe. It was the same thing I heard when I was told a Vert GT with UD's and 3.73's would not run 13.6... but it did andwas consistant until this mod. I have no new track numbers yet.

'03GTinFLA · Jan 20, 2006

01Steeda said:
I just put Patriot stage 2 heads and cams on my 01 steeda.. went from 248 RWHP to 336 RWHP. spent about 3000 including tune.... it was well worth it to me. going stroker shortblock now

Alright, let me get this straight. You said, "and second my car dyno'ed 20 RWHP more than every other stock GT when it was bone stock." Bone stock GT's are around 220 RWHP, so you where what at stock, 240? You said you have full exhaust and and UDP's, and your at 248 with that. Around 8 hp gain from full exhaust and pullies? hmmmm. I'm missing something. What where your stock numbers that were 20 hp more than others?
Then you add heads and cams with tune and get 88 RWHP. hmmmm.
Seriously dude, I hope your telling the truth because I'll order those UDP's and Patriot heads right now. I would love to have that hp. I just have a hard time with your hp numbers when others with more mods aren't even close to your claim.
Where's that dyno graph. It can't take that long to download photoshop, can it. Just bustin balls brother.

01Steeda · Jan 20, 2006

Ok, here is my dyno from bone stock.. no I was mistaken when I said 248 with UD's and exhaust.. my car has always had exhaust.. but come on, how much does flowmasters help? still had cats and still have stock manifolds.

didnt get a dyno after the UD's or the tune.

http://members.cox.net/pitbull23/Dyno52805.jpg

believe or not, I am done arguing about something as trivial as this

ADRENLN · Jan 20, 2006

what is that? i have a dyno that says i had 241rwhp at one time....what the hell does that mean. where is the dyno for 336rwhp?

dude you must be joking. are you just assuming you gained that much hp from heads and cams. cars with blowers gain that much from heads and cams not n/a cars. theres no way you could have gained 88rwhp. even with a stage 2 cam, whats that give maybe 15rwhp peak then a stage 1.

not only that, mid pipe, pullies, catback should maybe give 15rwhp. so 225 which what most gts dyno stock + 15 =240rwhp. so we will say you picked up 8 from the tune. 248rwhp....that is not 20 hp over other gts.

jimfitzgerald · Jan 20, 2006

stangman said:
www.modularpowerhouse.com

only place you need to look

Definitely

hotmustang331 · Jan 20, 2006

Your not making 336. I have a friend with a built VT motor, stg 2 heads, custom cams (between stg2 and 3), and a P51 manifold...+ all the boltons. He makes 332RWHP. STG 2 Patriot heads dont flow very well either.

And look at the dyno you presented, several things wrong.
A. your HP peaked @ 4400RPMs...GTs peak @ around 4700-4800, and by 5K when the guy shut it down your power is dropping like a ROCK. NOT typical of a GT...should go well past 5K before showing any noticable drop.
B. a GT DOES NOT MAKE 325RWTQ ALMOST STOCK!!!!

Looks something like an LT1 dyno to me .

Sorry, your credits going down hill fast....and its always funny how when someone has insane #s, their SCANNER IS ALWAYS BROKE! LOL. BTW im not saying that your car didnt make 336RWHP on that dyno, but that dyno has obvious "issues" if that really was your car, and it wont be accurate. Go else where if you REALLY are telling the truth and you will see maybe about 310RWHP at BEST.

Another guy on here has stg 1 VT cams and MPH STG 2.5 heads (flow MUCH more than patriots...like 20CFM....thats alot on the 2V world lol) and puts down 310 or 311RWHP.

Stang|ess · Jan 20, 2006

crap, I was about to start saving for heads and cams after hearing 336 rwhp.

peak hp is usually around 5600 isn't it?

stangGT97 · Jan 21, 2006

good catch hotmustang331 - I also noticed his HP curve plummets after 4400, looks like an NPI HP curve, only with a respectable peak hp number lol. Stock torque does seem high. This guy is probably a Patriot sales rep trying to sell us on their product.

also, doesnt look like it was a dynojet... is it?

ADRENLN · Jan 21, 2006

not only does a stock gt make power to 5500 rpm, but if you had stage 2 cams you would be making peak power to 6000 and beyond rpm.

i think he be lucky to be making 280 to the wheels.

'03GTinFLA · Jan 21, 2006

01Steeda said:
i have underdrive pulley's and full exhaust.

01Steeda said:
my car has always had exhaust.. but come on, how much does flowmasters help? still had cats and still have stock manifolds.

Full exhaust does not mean just a catback. Just flowmasters don't do s**t, but LT's and O/R mid-pipe with a catback do make a difference.

Not trying to be a d**k, but it doesn't seem like you know what your talking about. Just post up your new dyno graph with an accurate list of your modifications.
If it seems legit, I'll apologize.

billfisher · Jan 21, 2006

wow dude don't post like that.

i was going to suggest something completely different.

i know you guys are sick of hearing about 3v, but why buy those 3k heads or whatever they cost, when you are a cover, adapter plates for exhaust,and heads away from more power than 2v can ever make. i'm not talking about a whole swap, but 220 cfm/200 cfm intake/exhaust is typical for 2v ported, 3v heads start there. 220/189 in/ex. plus better cylinder filling and 260/208 ported. just wait a little while for them to get to boneyards. there are possible cover/block mating probs, but fix them. aluminum welding and milling is a small price to pay for getting in the 350 rwhp range. plus power starts in the 255-265 rwhp range. with no bolt-ons. all of you have expensive setups now. you have invested thousands in your cams intake and other stuff that has to be trashed. in return you get the best intake, heads out there. the stock 3v headers might even fit 4.6. just think about it before investing.

this might be a good time to wait for a better way. at least consider it. our cars weigh less than 05+.

as far as 2v. EVERYONE seems to like MPH. before i took the plunge i considered patriot. but their disclaimer aboutpossible break outs if i had any core shift scared me away. you mat never have ported a set of heads, but if you get too aggressive in the exhaust, the port will heat the water passing by the ex ports way too much. no heat rejection. fox lake is good too. or BOSS 331.

i put my "X" with MPH.

you guys are probably ignoring me at this point. i would ignore me. i suck. i will just go away into the hole from which i came.

01Steeda · Jan 21, 2006

believe what you wish, the guy asked and i told what my experience is, i could care less what an internet "guru" thinks. My car does what it does.

oh and full exhaust was done at the time of the heads.

01Steeda · Jan 21, 2006

ok,.. lets make this debate more intresting. All you e-dyno Guru's. My car is having a built shortblock installed over the next 2 weeks. I will probably have the car on the Dyno within 3-4. Nothin special on the shortblock, flat top pistons and a forged bottom. should be around 10:1 compression when done.

Patriot Stage 2 Heads and Cams
Steeda U/D's
Shorty headers, O/H pipe and Flowmaster 40's
K&N drop in, stock airbox and intake.

What should she make??? I'll Dyno her on 2 different Dyno's and we'll see how good you are.

01Steeda · Jan 21, 2006

and about the dyno that sheet is from.. that was done @ a dyno day and I had my doubts at first. After seeing 25 other cars dyno'ed that all made about what was expected I went ahead and took it. Like
i said after the engine is finished I'll go to 2 others and see what I get, if the numbers show his are inflated... I have eaten worse crow!

DropTopPony · Jan 21, 2006

01Steeda said:
ok,.. lets make this debate more intresting. All you e-dyno Guru's. My car is having a built shortblock installed over the next 2 weeks. I will probably have the car on the Dyno within 3-4. Nothin special on the shortblock, flat top pistons and a forged bottom. should be around 10:1 compression when done.

Patriot Stage 2 Heads and Cams
Steeda U/D's
Shorty headers, O/H pipe and Flowmaster 40's
K&N drop in, stock airbox and intake.

What should she make??? I'll Dyno her on 2 different Dyno's and we'll see how good you are.

you don't even have long tubes...hmmmm i'll say your @285rwhp now and with the flat tops and maybe alittle more rpm range with the forged rotating assembly 300rwhp max.

ADRENLN · Jan 21, 2006

id say if you get all that done...also 300 max. i have l/t which will make more then your shorties na. however you will have the build short block making up for the power difference. you also have pulliesw and i dont, but i have a intake plenum. those should also equal out.

i have 290rwhp. the reason im willing to say you might get 300 max out of the set up is because your going with the stage 2 cams and i have stage 1 blower cams. so i will give you 300rwhp.

billfisher · Jan 21, 2006

i give him 290. the exhaust will shift any cam to a lower rpm band. and 300 tq.

output is roughly 4x cylinder pressure. it will help a little, .6 point, but shortys still hurt tuning bad. better exhaust flow from lower restriction does not equal tuned pulses. he will lose 10 hp - 12 hp.i know squat about steeda intakes, but if his stock intake also flows 550ish cfm, that hurts more. so i take back the torque.

290hp and 308 tq. if the cams shift the max hp tq band out of the range of intake and exhaust there is a net loss. mismatch hurts. about the time the intake gives up the cams,heads come in.

but as you all know i am not a guru. so my opinion is worth squat.

ADRENLN · Jan 21, 2006

yea max 300. i figured around 290-300. 300 is not easy to make trust me i know. i was thinking about throwing on the p51 to hit 300rwhp, but that thing weighs so much that theres no point. id have more power but wouldnt pick up any speed. sorry off topic!

billfisher · Jan 21, 2006

electric water pump. degree the cams retard them 1 degree. add 15" vacuum pump, properly set up crank scraper/windage tray, mill the heads a little. 3" collectors w/ 24x3" extensions. etc.

bypass hydraulic pump for dyno and track.

Mustanggt108 · Jan 22, 2006

billfisher said:
wow dude don't post like that.

i was going to suggest something completely different.

i know you guys are sick of hearing about 3v, but why buy those 3k heads or whatever they cost, when you are a cover, adapter plates for exhaust,and heads away from more power than 2v can ever make. i'm not talking about a whole swap, but 220 cfm/200 cfm intake/exhaust is typical for 2v ported, 3v heads start there. 220/189 in/ex. plus better cylinder filling and 260/208 ported. just wait a little while for them to get to boneyards. there are possible cover/block mating probs, but fix them. aluminum welding and milling is a small price to pay for getting in the 350 rwhp range. plus power starts in the 255-265 rwhp range. with no bolt-ons. all of you have expensive setups now. you have invested thousands in your cams intake and other stuff that has to be trashed. in return you get the best intake, heads out there. the stock 3v headers might even fit 4.6. just think about it before investing.

this might be a good time to wait for a better way. at least consider it. our cars weigh less than 05+.

as far as 2v. EVERYONE seems to like MPH. before i took the plunge i considered patriot. but their disclaimer aboutpossible break outs if i had any core shift scared me away. you mat never have ported a set of heads, but if you get too aggressive in the exhaust, the port will heat the water passing by the ex ports way too much. no heat rejection. fox lake is good too. or BOSS 331.

i put my "X" with MPH.

you guys are probably ignoring me at this point. i would ignore me. i suck. i will just go away into the hole from which i came.

so i could replace my stock 04 heads with 05-06GT's heads? will the fit right on? will i need a tune??

Upgrading heads on 04 GT

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