Warranty Problem

jpiatchek · Oct 12, 2005

I have an 05 Vert with the gas tank problem and the popping struts. I will be taking it to the dealer on Oct 1,for the problems. I will be arriving home from vacation late the night before and will be driving the car. I have the C&L CAI and 91 Predator tune with a custom tune. The car is running perfect. Do you think I need to remove everything before taking it in? I wiould like not to have to mess with it since eveyting is working well and I will be getting in late the night before. Would apprecaite your comments. Thanks John

RICVA05 · Oct 12, 2005

I would take out the CAI put the factory tune back in. Why let them know what you have. My car has been in a couple of times I put everything back to factory except tune for gears. It is easy to change filter box and tune only a 10 minute job. The car will accept the tune back when it gets back from the shop with no change of performance.

Quags · Oct 13, 2005

Mine went in with the C&L and SCT tune to get the door handles replaced and the strut TSB. No probs. As many have said, if nothing is broken in your engine, how can they void your warranty. PLUS, they have to prove you caused it. Don't waste your time.

scrming · Oct 15, 2005

My dealership is very cool... I can top them all...

I was having a Throttle Postion Sensor problem as described in TSB 05-14-4. I took my car in with CAI, Zex completely installed in plain site (including TPS wire tap!), helmet in the back seat (which the writer commented on!) and big white numbers on the windshield fromt the track... Tech pulled the trouble codes, order the part and was fixed the next day... no charge... LOL I still go to the dealership for my oil changes and my car always draw them over to see what I've done to the car now! LOL!ll

I8URVTEC · Oct 16, 2005

Some dealerships are cool and you won't have a problem. I say leave it on. If they give you trouble take the car somewhere else. There are TSBs out about your problems and they have to fix them. Becides, the dealer told me if ever they did void your warrenty they have to prove that your mods caused the problem. There is no way to prove that a CAI and tune caused those problems. I say leave them on and take the car in.

jpiatchek · Oct 20, 2005

warranty

Thanks for your comments. I think I'll leave it on unless I get home early or get real energetic.

GT-03 · Oct 21, 2005

I8URVTEC said:
Becides, the dealer told me if ever they did void your warrenty they have to prove that your mods caused the problem. There is no way to prove that a CAI and tune caused those problems. I say leave them on and take the car in.

Unfortunately, what that dealer said, isn't correct.

Fed law (the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act) allows a manufacturer to completely void a warranty if there is any sign of abuse. For cars, racing (including informal street stuff) is considered abuse. If you make serious performance mods, they can be considered evidence of abuse, and that is all it takes. The theory can be, why did you make the performance mods if you weren't going to take advantage of them?

However, as mentioned already, a lot of it depends on your dealer. They can either ignore the mods, or make a big deal over them. It all depends.

Quags · Oct 21, 2005

Dealers get paid for warranty fixes. They do not loose any money when they do TSB repairs and other warranty work. They get paid by Ford. Take the car in and do not worry about it.

FORCED2DV8 · Oct 21, 2005

Like was said before, the mods are no relevant to the problems you are having, so they shouldnt even look under the hood or at the tune you have in. I wouldnt mess with it leave it on.

Big-Foot · Oct 21, 2005

Quags said:
Dealers get paid for warranty fixes. They do not loose any money when they do TSB repairs and other warranty work. They get paid by Ford.

This is not entirely true...

While my information is more than just a few years old since I've worked in the industry - I believe that Ford, GM and Chrysler (Can't speak for the imports) all have two different labor rates. There is a Public labor rate that is charged to the general public ($90 per hour at many shops around here), and there is a Warranty Labor rate which is 50-60% of the Public labor rate that they can actually charge back to the factory.. So - in a sense, if the dealer's shop is full of warranty vehicles and the public's vehicles are sitting in the parking lot waiting - they are losing money...

Worked there - done that..

I8URVTEC · Oct 21, 2005

GT-03 said:
Unfortunately, what that dealer said, isn't correct.

Fed law (the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act) allows a manufacturer to completely void a warranty if there is any sign of abuse. For cars, racing (including informal street stuff) is considered abuse. If you make serious performance mods, they can be considered evidence of abuse, and that is all it takes. The theory can be, why did you make the performance mods if you weren't going to take advantage of them?

However, as mentioned already, a lot of it depends on your dealer. They can either ignore the mods, or make a big deal over them. It all depends.

Yes but you are saying "If there is any sign of abuse" so again they are the ones with the burden of proving that your mods are actually abuse. Also you said serious performance mods. Of course something serious like a blower is going to void your warrenty but something like CAI and exhaust really shouldn't be considered serious mods.

Dyoct · Oct 22, 2005

Big-Foot said:
This is not entirely true...

While my information is more than just a few years old since I've worked in the industry - I believe that Ford, GM and Chrysler (Can't speak for the imports) all have two different labor rates. There is a Public labor rate that is charged to the general public ($90 per hour at many shops around here), and there is a Warranty Labor rate which is 50-60% of the Public labor rate that they can actually charge back to the factory.. So - in a sense, if the dealer's shop is full of warranty vehicles and the public's vehicles are sitting in the parking lot waiting - they are losing money...

Worked there - done that..

Not entirely true, they should be getting the same rate in order to prevent dealerships from giving preferential treatment to the non-warranty customers. But you did hit it on the nose, the dealership is paid by the manufacturer as long as it is a bona-fide claim. Bona-fide also means on a vehicle that technically hasn't any sort of mod on it...so yes to err on the side of caution, remove your mods.

Big-Foot · Oct 22, 2005

Dyoct said:
Not entirely true, they should be getting the same rate in order to prevent dealerships from giving preferential treatment to the non-warranty customers. But you did hit it on the nose, the dealership is paid by the manufacturer as long as it is a bona-fide claim. Bona-fide also means on a vehicle that technically hasn't any sort of mod on it...so yes to err on the side of caution, remove your mods.

While I agree in your premise that "they should be getting the same rate" - etc -
My experience comes from having worked as a mechanic (called Techs these days) in the dealerships.. Are you saying that there is no longer a delta between warranty labor rates and shop labor rates? What is your source of information?

Also - We had a delta between flat-rate labor hours between warranty repairs and shop rate.. Many times the warranty repair flat rate was longer than shop rate hours.

Any current Ford Techs online here???

85 Coupe 5.0 · Nov 12, 2005

Big-Foot said:
While I agree in your premise that "they should be getting the same rate" - etc -
My experience comes from having worked as a mechanic (called Techs these days) in the dealerships.. Are you saying that there is no longer a delta between warranty labor rates and shop labor rates? What is your source of information?

Also - We had a delta between flat-rate labor hours between warranty repairs and shop rate.. Many times the warranty repair flat rate was longer than shop rate hours.

Any current Ford Techs online here???

Well, i guess now would be a good time for me to speak up..........

I am currently a Ford Tech. Yes, there ARE DEFINATELY different rates for Warranty/Customer pay. Warranty pay is usually far less than a job typically pays.

About dealerships getting paid for warranty work.........

Ford DOES NOT pay for all warranty work, there are exceptions. In a normal situation, i diagnose a vehicle under warranty, order the parts and fix the vehicle, our dealer get reimbursed, no problem. What of the parts used for the repair? They are held until Ford calls for them, which they don't always do. Let's say you procharge/nos your stang, you toast a piston.

Your dealer puts in a new motor, has to send the old one back to Ford, HAS TO, otherwise, the dealer eats the parts and possibly the labor.

Ford analyzes the engine, finds a burnt piston, determines it's from aftermarket parts, sends it back to the dealer, along with the bill. The dealer now owns a perfectly useless motor along with having to pay the tech out of their pocket.

What a dealer will/will not accept depends on what the dealer is willing to take a chance on.

Dyoct · Nov 12, 2005

85 Coupe 5.0 said:
What a dealer will/will not accept depends on what the dealer is willing to take a chance on.

You hit it right on the nose there. And looking into it some more it seems that areas that are around the same cost of living as Detriot have the Warranty & Policy work at the near or same levels as Retail Labor. I have yet to see a Cali dealer that is anywhere near equal on Retail and Warranty rates. A look at say a dealer in Columbus OH and they're basically even.

PS, what do you do when that guy with the toasted engine comes back after the warranty job that didn't get reimbursed by FCSD?

85 Coupe 5.0 · Nov 12, 2005

by the way, the engine deal was a hypothetical situation, it didn't happen.

You're asking, what would I do as a tech? I suppose there is not much that I could do, it's basically my service advisor's call on weather or not it's a warranty deal. That assumption is usually made by the findings that I come upon as a tech and what they observe upon ticket write-up.

Assuming that they knew the risks, took the job, then got burnt by FCSD, I beleive I would get paid as a tech, with the dealership taking the hit on the labor and parts.

Dyoct · Nov 12, 2005

Oh ok, just curious if there was any sort of retaliation. I remember the story of a guy with a Focus that blew up his engine, the tech knew the kid did something because the engine was non-interference. Ford was denying it, the kid was getting pissed and threatened to sue. Then the smoking gun was found, the kid had been on a Focus forum and talked about his cam mod, then weeks later about the untimely demise of his new engine. Kid was asked one last time, he stuck to his story, faxed over a printout of the site were he admitted to his modding, kid dropped case..whoops

85 Coupe 5.0 · Nov 18, 2005

Dyoct said:
Oh ok, just curious if there was any sort of retaliation. I remember the story of a guy with a Focus that blew up his engine, the tech knew the kid did something because the engine was non-interference. Ford was denying it, the kid was getting pissed and threatened to sue. Then the smoking gun was found, the kid had been on a Focus forum and talked about his cam mod, then weeks later about the untimely demise of his new engine. Kid was asked one last time, he stuck to his story, faxed over a printout of the site were he admitted to his modding, kid dropped case..whoops

yea, i must admit, that would suck.

Basically it boils down to what a dealer is willing to take a risk on. Most dealers are laid back with light mods, and if you are a nice customer and, most importantly, DON'T GET PUSHY WITH THE SERVICE ADVISOR, you shouldn't have any problems.

GT-03 · Nov 19, 2005

Dyoct said:
Then the smoking gun was found, the kid had been on a Focus forum and talked about his cam mod, then weeks later about the untimely demise of his new engine.

I think Ford would have eventually found the cam mod, even if the kid didn't mention it in a forum.

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