Warranty?

red05bullitgt said:

Actually Celtic ? he's correct providing that an authorized Roush, Saleen or Steeda dealer install the SC ? then the 3/36 warranty remains intact..however if the customer installs the SC and is later proven as being directly responsible for causing the warranted parts to fail ? then yes it comes out of the customer's pocket..

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Roush provides a new warranty (from an email I sent Roush some time back, and their response)-

...

Could you please provide further information on the warranty offered -
specifically, is this a Ford warranty and where can I expect the
warranty to be honored. Please specifically state whether I can expect a
non-Roush dealership to do warranty work on my Roush s/c'd car.

Thanks in advance,

xxxxx.

xxxxx,

What our Roush warranty covers is, it will void the Ford factory
warranty, but our warranty will cover the remaning of the 3 year 36,000
mile warranty. The work has to be done by a certified mechanic.

Thanks,

Roush Performance Products
Sales and Customer Service
28156 Plymouth Rd Livonia, MI 48150
Phone: 800-59-ROUSH

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Well in that case Celtic ? you sure can't argue with something that's straight from the horse's mouth so to speak lol. and the e-mail that you posted from Roush clearly demonstates that you're absolutely correct.

Why can't we all get along? Seems like semantics here. Some dealers will try to deny a claim based on a suspension change alone. That's the point I am trying to make. And if that decison is upheld as the claim works its way through the process (to Ford cooperate or whomever) that's what will happen. But policy, the way, I understand it states that there must be a connection between what was changed and the problem that has occurred. If you are at fault, Ford will not pay. If Ford is at fault, Ford will pay.

PERTANO said:

Red05, I wasn't sure on Steeda because I've never ran into a car that was built by them or has had parts installed by an authorized dealer. Most cars I see are Roush and Saleens.

I am basically trying to paraphrase a largely gray area on mustang modifications and what is and isn't covered. Eventually it's going to boil down to the failure and how hard you are willing to fight with the service advisor/manager to get past the inital "YOU DRIVE A MUSTANG SO YOU MUST ABUSE IT" stereotype.

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So let me get this straight ? You claim to work for Ford and directly decide as to what is covered and what is not covered under warranty but yet your not even aware of who all your factory authorized dealers are ? Steeda is one of your largest factory authorized dealers in the US so how can you not know this ? As for how hard I'm willing to fight with the dealer's service manager is concerned ? you should also be fully aware being that you work for Ford ? that according to your very own warranty policy that I obtained from not just one of your field service engineers ? but 2 of them clearly state the dealership's service manager is required to request that a Ford field service engineer be brought in to conduct a full investigation and must then prove within a reasonable doubt that an aftermarket part was directly responsible for causing the warranted part or parts in question to fail...Therefore I strongly suggest that you read over the post I submitted earlier which includes the info I obtained concerning your warranty policy and procedures...And while were on the subject of service managers ? it was my dealer's service manager who placed a phone call to his field service engineer on my behalf to contact me concerning the warranty policy to begin with. In fact, I have a very great relationship with my dealership's service manager who also knows that I've installed the FRPP cold air intake on my Mustang and has been nothing but supportive towards me..The point is I'm not attempting to hide or get over on anybody and if an aftermarket part that I've installed causes damage to my vehicle ? I accept full responsibility and will pay for any necessary repairs..However ? I won't tolerate it when certain boneheads that work for some of your dealership's come into these forums using their scare tactics by claiming if an aftermarket part is discovered to be installed upon their vehicles ? that they (dealerships) can void their factory warranty ? is absolutely a crock of BS you know it and I know it and the bottom line is..there is no excuse for this kind of behavior nor does anybody especially your loyal customers deserve to be intimidated by anyone for any reason period and it needs to end once and for all...It's no wonder why Ford is in the financial mess that it finds itself in ? enough said...

Stan, as far as I'm concerned ? you and I have always gotten along ever since I became a member of this forum over a year ago..The reason why I've tried so hard to get this across is because loyal customers such as yourself deserve to know the truth and these boneheads who come into our forums spreading their scare tactics by intimidating people like you and I who keep Ford in business need to start realizing that the customer should always come first and deserve to be treated with respect ? otherwise it's only going to be a matter of time before Ford does go under

stanmckinney said:

Why can't we all get along? Seems like semantics here. Some dealers will try to deny a claim based on a suspension change alone. That's the point I am trying to make. And if that decison is upheld as the claim works its way through the process (to Ford cooperate or whomever) that's what will happen. But policy, the way, I understand it states that there must be a connection between what was changed and the problem that has occurred. If you are at fault, Ford will not pay. If Ford is at fault, Ford will pay.

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I wasn't trying to be pedantic - I've just heard/seen enough "if you get Company X parts, installed by a Ford dealer, your warranty is fine...", to try to be sure that everyone knows the real deal. Now, I do not profess to know anything about the replacement warranty Roush provides, but I've HEARD that any mods (eg. custom tune) will void it. Now, if that's the case, it's not too difficult to imagine someone doing what they consider to be a minor tweak and finding they've now got no powertrain warranty.

And your last sentence probably sums up the warranty question best - if you break it yourself, expect to pay for it yourself.

Oh, and Red - yep, totally agree with this "voiding the warranty" myth. The worst that can happen is declined cover, due to AM product being cause of failure.

I couldn't have put it any better myself and instead of always pointing the finger towards aftermarket parts as being at fault for causing Ford's so called superior factory components to fail ? Produce reliable components to begin with and perhaps there wouldn't be the need to purchase aftermarket parts in the first place..

I just want to clarify that I don't neccessarily agree with fords policy in this matter, but I am paid to ensure that it is followed. I have a very modified 05 GT and in doing so I assume all responsibilty for any future failures that may happen to the car. I know what I'm getting myself into, and as long as people are aware of the risks they assume with modifying their cars then there wouldn't be any problems. I'm not trying to say everyone who modifies their cars beats on them and abuses them, but there is a minority of people out there that try to sneak stuff past that ruins it for the majority of people that have honest failures. It's not that Ford engineers a superior product, it's that they engineered a product to work under a certain condition for a certain amount of time. Sometimes they fall short and warranties are required.

Okay so this horse if dead and I'll quit now. Good luck with your future modifications. I know a Helion Turbo kit is next on my list.

I just have one last question for you and I'll also consider this as being a dead horse issue as well... Was the info that I obtained from the Field service engineers accurate hope you also realize that I'm just looking after the best interests of my fellow Stang enthusiasts including yourself as well..

Honestly man the field reps rarely come out to look at problems like this. They are more or less concerned with engineering flaws or repeat failures. The 6.0 diesels draw alot of attention from them because of the number of failures we experience. The mustangs are holding up very well, and the main concerns with it are the ones that you TSB's address like gas tank fill, suspension noise, etc... That's why I said that you will automatically be labeled if you show up with a clutch failure, or other failures that aren't already recognized as a problem. Modifications only make it worse It's just the stereotype that comes with the car. I was going to quote the manual that states modifications are not allowed, but I forgot to copy it before I left work. I can quote word for word the actual policy tommorrow though. It's pretty cut and dry on modifications.

In my opinion, suspension mods are a little different than other mods. Not legally mind you, but in practice I think they are. Here's why- if you take a car that has been mildly lowered into a dealership, honestly there's a chance that they won't even notice that something has been done to the car. The only way that they'll notice if you've changed struts is if the body of the strut is a different color than the stock part. Other suspenion components are a bit more obvious, but really, how often do (well made, name brand, and PROPERLY INSTALLED) suspension parts fail? It's a little different than engine mods. Suspension modifications really don't malfunction, and if they should (barring out and out catastrophic failure) they won't damage other aspects of the car. A sagging spring is easily replaced and doesn't hurt anything else. All I'm saying is that suspension changes are a pretty safe bet because they aren't necessarily immediately obvious and because if they cause problems or fail that failure is usually fairly isolated to that part alone.

Engine modifications, however, may affect more expensive, complex sustems. If you were to get a very aggressive tune for example (and I can't imagine someone selling you such a tune, but we'll play worst case scenario) it might cause plugs to foul or a rough idle, etc., problems that a Ford Dealership would not want to (and shouldn't have to) resolve. Furthermore, if you need a software update for your ECU and you have a program loaded to calibrate the new MAF in your cold air kit, you've potentially got a sticker situation on your hands. Not that the dealership should deny you service if there's no problem, it just complicates matters.

Long story short, it's kind of like a police officer. If a cop pulls you over and wants to pull everything out of your car to search it based on a nebulous "suspicion", he probably can. If he just writes you a warning for not having your license plate on the front or having a bad tail-light bulb, he can probably do that too. It's kind of up to the cop in the moment. Can you go to court and fight it out if worse comes to worse? Sure, but it probably won't ever get to that point as long as you're reasonable in you expectations about what they should and shouldn't cover in their warranty.

As for resale value, it's hard for me to think that anyone would pay significantly less (if at all) for a car that's been lowered a little or has a short throw shifter on it. Honestly, the probably aren't even going to notice unless they've a lot of other Mustangs to compare it to. My advice is to just enjoy the car and keep the stock parts on the shelf so if you need to reinstall them you can.

TheVin said:

Petrano: I would be very interested in that section about modifications. If I can't keep my Warranty intact with an aftermarket suspension on, then I'm not going to buy a Mustang. I'll get the 350Z and 'live' with the two seats.

Vin

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I'll make a copy of it and bring it with me tommorrow. I can't post from work so it will have to wait til I get home.

Oh, and if it helps any, I've had my car in twice for warranty work (albeit for nothing to do with the suspension) after I performed all of my suspension modifications on it and have had no mention made about the modifications.

The work included replacing a fuel pump and an interior issue.

You better check into Nissan's warranty coverage as well, before buying a 350z because I doubt you'll want to leave that car completely stock either.

Don't sweat the suspension modification stuff too much. I ceratinly wouldn't let that keep me from buying a Mustang. Talk to other forum members in your area with modded cars who have taken their cars in for warranty work and see what their experience has been. I'd get the names of specific dealerships that were OK with modded cars if you're that worried about it.

Thanks for all the good scoop PERTANO. I think you've cleared up a lot of the questions that many of us who regularly visit here have had concerning warranty claims on modified cars.

Okay so here it is straight from the book. I had to type it so if there are misspelt words or anything you can blame me. I tried to copy and paste, but it wasn't happening. I lost a break over this so you better read it!!!! ha ha.

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE PCM MODIFICATION

All alterations or modifications of Ford Motor Company vehicles must be done in compliance with all applicable state and federal statutes and regulations. The installation/use of any non-ford product will not neccessarily void the Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty. If, however the non-ford product fails or causes a ford part to fail, the cost of the repair and any related damage are not covered by the Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty. The vehicle owner would need to look to the manufacturer or installer of the non-Ford product for repairs, not to Ford

Crankshaft pulley modifications
Aftermarket crankshaft pulley and supercharger pulleys are a common modification on supercharged engines due to ease of installation and removal. The modification is performed to increase air intake boost pressure into the engine. This modification may cause internal engine damage and emission concerns that are not covered under warranty.

NON-Reimbursable conditions
The New Vehicle limited warranty does not provide coverage, and repairs are not reimburable under warranty, when any of the following conditions/situations occur.

Damage Resulting from:

-Accidents, collision or objects striking the vehicle
-Theft, vandalism, or riot
-Fire or explosion
-Freezing
-MIsusing the vehicle, such as driving over curbs, overloading, racing, or suing the vehicle as a stationary power source
-Alteration or modification of the vehicle - including the body, chssis, or component - after the vehicle leaves Ford's control.
-Installation of Non-Ford parts installed after the vehicle leaves Ford's Control
-Tamper with the vehicle, tampering with the emssions systems, or with other parts that affect these systems.
-Disconnecting or altering the odometer or allowing the odometer to be inoperative for an extended period of time wth the result that the actual mileage cannot be determined.
-Using contaminated or improper fluids.
-Customer applied chemicals or accidental spills
-Driving through water deep enough that cause water to be ingested into the engine.

So basically it said what we all said. If it doesn't mess anything up you're fine. If it screws something up, don't ask Ford for help. They will cover other warranty work, they just wont warrant any of the aftermarket crap.

That's basically it, but they won't warranty the Ford parts that fail either. But if you don't have a problem will you car be at the dealership for service? So if it shows up you better be prepared for the finger pointing to begin and for the aftermarket parts to be blamed for the failure.

PERTANO said:

That's basically it, but they won't warranty the Ford parts that fail either. But if you don't have a problem will you car be at the dealership for service? So if it shows up you better be prepared for the finger pointing to begin and for the aftermarket parts to be blamed for the failure.

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The bottom line is this ? The info that I originally obtained from the field service engineers about dealerships voiding Ford factory warranties was correct and that only individuals such as PERTANO who work for FORD CORPORATE are legally authorized to make those decisions in which I clearly stated from the very beginning of this thread just as I also clearly stated that dealerships are only authorized to refuse servicing vehicles under a warranty claim if ? an aftermarket part was directly responsible for causing the warranted part or parts in question to fail..My entire point from the very beginning was this ? there's a very huge difference between dealerships refusing to service a vehicle under a warranty claim than having the authorization of VOIDING A FORD FACTORY WARRANTY ? in which we now all know was a myth just as I suspected it was in the first place...Therefore dealerships can do all the finger pointing until their blue in the face ? if in the event you should happen to come across a bone headed dealership like that ? then just move on to another dealer who will work with you and not against you and I don't want to hear any BS excuses that it all depends on the dealership ? They all have to follow the very same procedures and requirements under Ford's policy..

I do have a question for you PERTANO ? the dealership in my area is a Roush dealer and I asked the service tech that usually works on my Stang, if I agreed to have him order Roush UD pulleys and then have him install them for me, if there would be any problems with my factory warranty and he assured me that as long as a factory authorized technician installs them ? I have nothing to worry about...So in your opinion ? is he being accurate about this...