weird stater issue please help.

[wigracer]

weird starter issue please help.

I have a 68 coupe 289 3 spd manual. Starter went click click click. Tested starter, junk! Went to replace starter and stuck in block plate. Had to pry it out. Went to put new starter in and broke off ear. Got another new starter and really had to finesse the starter to get it in there. Filed etc. Plate was bent in. Got new starter in and grind, grind, grind, goes the starter. Always started but always a little noisy. Till one day 15 or so starts later. No engagement at all. Turn engine fan in neutral to move flywheel, now it starts right up. Till next time. Now I would asume the block plate was the issue, but also have a issue with the clutch chattering. Took all the stuff apart and ring gear junk! Starter Junk! Flywheel has cracks in it and clutch is junk, down to wear bars and rivets. Someone told me to check crank end play as this could be the whole problem with clutch and starter. Thrust bearing worn out? Has anyone had a similiar issue? I also need to know what diaphragm style clutch I should get to replace the 3 fingered one I now have, does anyone have a part # or brand they have had luck with? I really need help so post anything you may be able to add and be as descriptive as possible as I am mechanically able just not real sure of the right parts I may need. Thanks guys.

 

[TOM B]

I had the same problem with a starter, it didnt fit right in the bellhousing, I was told it was the right starter and that i had something else wrong. So I tryed it again ,no go. I measured my old starter mounting housing to the new one and the new starter was 60 thousands larger. I took it back to Advanced auto and went to Napa and got the right starter. If I was to force it in or file the hole bigger it would have done the damage you have. Dont trust the counter geek, they dont know *****.
As for your clutch, if you have a stock or mild engine then a stock replacement would be good. You can go for a performance type clutch as it will perform and hold better. A stock type 3 finger clutch is pretty good for steet driving mild manner type driving. You can go with a 3 finger performance but you will have to push harder on the clutch pedal. most of these are Borg and Beck.
A milti-finger clutch offers performance and holding power without the extra pedal effort. these are usally Ram style pressure plates. different pressures are available. These are what I buy.
O yea, ALWAYS resurface the flywheel when installing a new clutch, NO exemptions!

 

[wigracer]

thanks for the help tom.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

I have no idea what would cause all the problems except maybe an automatic starter in a manual application. Even then, I've never had that problem.

For clutches, a "premium" replacememrnt 3-finger will be fine and will hold a fair bit of power. I have a Ram 3-finger in my car and its made by Valeo, the same company that makes the Ford Motorsport HD and King Cobra clutches(both diaphragm clutches). The HD is a good value at $160 if you must have a diaphragm clutch. I had an FMS HD in my '89 GT and it was about as heavy a pedal as my Ram.

 

[jcode68]

Clutch chatter is almost inevitable

I replaced the clutch& pressure (RAM), TO bearing, thrust bushing, and resurfaced the FW (which did not have any cracks or bad heat spots on it) and after a few hundred miles, still had chatter even though I adjusted the crap out of the linkage. I believe the problem is a combo of the old style clutch Z-bar linkage as well as the 3 finger style pressure plate. I should also say the engine at the time was all stock 302, so nothing very powerful and I drove it like a granny. I am doing an upgrade to T-5 among other things and it seems like from what I read the guys changing to cable clutch or hydraulic setups don't have the chatter problems (nor do I in my late model Stang). I am going with hydraulic setup and have some more work to finish it up, so I can't speak from experience yet. Just my 2 cents.

 

[stangman16]

Lemme know how you like that Hydraulic setup, I'm really considering one as well. I have a friend that has one in his '72 Maverick, but I don't like how the pedal effort is too short, IMO. But he claims he can't adjust it either - I don't know about that. My cable setup got rid of most all the clatter & I have a 10.5" diaphragm clutch setup.

I replaced the clutch& pressure (RAM), TO bearing, thrust bushing, and resurfaced the FW (which did not have any cracks or bad heat spots on it) and after a few hundred miles, still had chatter even though I adjusted the crap out of the linkage. I believe the problem is a combo of the old style clutch Z-bar linkage as well as the 3 finger style pressure plate. I should also say the engine at the time was all stock 302, so nothing very powerful and I drove it like a granny. I am doing an upgrade to T-5 among other things and it seems like from what I read the guys changing to cable clutch or hydraulic setups don't have the chatter problems (nor do I in my late model Stang). I am going with hydraulic setup and have some more work to finish it up, so I can't speak from experience yet. Just my 2 cents.

 

[1320stang]

Man, I've always had the Z-bar in everything and never had a chatter problem. Karma or the clutch gods are looking down on me or something.....

I've also always had the long style pressure plates as well. I think some of the things about the long style came from the past when they used to have ungodly springs in them to hold the disc against the flywheel. My buddy's new McLeod pressure plate only has something like 300#-325# of pressure? Not like the 650#+ like the old stuff had.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

Man, I've always had the Z-bar in everything and never had a chatter problem. Karma or the clutch gods are looking down on me or something.....

I've also always had the long style pressure plates as well. I think some of the things about the long style came from the past when they used to have ungodly springs in them to hold the disc against the flywheel. My buddy's new McLeod pressure plate only has something like 300#-325# of pressure? Not like the 650#+ like the old stuff had.

My '65 had all the stock linkages with a diaphragm clutc.....no chatter. The '89 Gt I had after that had the stock cable setup with an FMS heavy Duty diaphragm......no chatter. My '68 has all the stock linkages with a new RAM 3-finger....no chatter. I would say its not merely "luck of the draw."

 

[latamud]

I had a toploader and Z-bar set-up and 3 finger clutch with no chatter. Now I have a T-5 with cable kit and diaphram clutch with no chater. I also installed a Ford T-5 behind a Chrysler 318 in my 65 Barracuda with an diaphram clutch and hydraulic throwout bearing and it has not chatter. The cable kit was way cheaper. The hydraulic kit took longer to put in but is a tighter pedal, and my foot moves forward about 1" to engage the clutch.

 

[jcode68]

I wonder if gearing has an impact on chatter?

My 68 has 2.79:1 rear gears and as I stated earlier, had chatter problems despite all new components. Some 3.55:1 or better take less effort for the engine to get things moving, so I'm wondering if this could be an important variable in the "chatter factor". Regardless, I don't believe in luck and I always buy the best quality parts, so not sure what else the problem could be.