What engine would you rather see in the next Cobra (R)

Z28x · May 19, 2004

What engine would you rather see in the next Cobra or most likly Cobra R?

Supercharged 5.4L DOHC V8 from the Ford GT
HP = 550 @ 6,500rpm
Torque = 500 @ 3,750rpm

or

The 7.0L cam-in-block Ford based aluminum V8 from the Saleen S7
HP = 550 @ 6400rpm
Torque = 520 @ 4000 rpm

(assume cost and fuel consumption are the same for both engine)

shatner saves · May 19, 2004

That's a tough one. It'd be good to see what the complete power band looks like, but I'd probably lean towards the S7 motor.

PonyGrl420 · May 19, 2004

Yea Is say S7 if I ad to pick from thoes 2.
Id really like a 5.8 though.
Having a 7.0 is nice but i know ford can make more power without having to go to huge engines and forced induction.

RICKS · May 19, 2004

I honestly don't believe Ford would do either. They would not do a forced-induction R-model. And I don't think they would invest a dime into a R-model that's SUPPOSED to be a halo car, King of all Mustangs, but reaches backward and resorts to a pushrod motor to make the power. It would be a huge step backwards, and be a slap in the face to all of the Mustangers that followed Ford into the mod-motor ohc era. And it would make all the bowtie boys laugh at all the Mustangers who have been ragging Chevy for remaining in the "stone age" with their pushrods. Not a good idea. Maybe that all-aluminum 5.8 V-10 would be light enough to make a good road racer, and almost 600 h.p. of n/a power.

GelatiCruiser · May 19, 2004

If.....I'd take a the 7.0L...you could still put a power adder on there and REALLY fly.

Z28x · May 19, 2004

RICKS said:
I honestly don't believe Ford would do either. They would not do a forced-induction R-model. And I don't think they would invest a dime into a R-model that's SUPPOSED to be a halo car, King of all Mustangs, but reaches backward and resorts to a pushrod motor to make the power. It would be a huge step backwards, and be a slap in the face to all of the Mustangers that followed Ford into the mod-motor ohc era. And it would make all the bowtie boys laugh at all the Mustangers who have been ragging Chevy for remaining in the "stone age" with their pushrods. Not a good idea. Maybe that all-aluminum 5.8 V-10 would be light enough to make a good road racer, and almost 600 h.p. of n/a power.

Slap in the face???? Stone age????? If it is good enoght for a $400,000 supercar I think it will be good enough for a $60,000 Mustang.

Saying that going to a pushrod engine is "huge step backwards" is very ignorant and makes you sound like a ricer. GM and now Dodge have proven that a modern pushrod engine can be as good or better than many OHC engine, I'd even go so far as to say the GM gen III/IV V8s (LS1/LS2) and Hemi are superior to Fords Mod motors(although 3v Fords are catching up). OHC predates cam-in-block and DOHC tech has been around since the 1920's (so much for hightech)

The 7.0L would also be a lot lighter, more compact, rev just as high (7000rpm redline), have a lower center of gravity and cost less to build (all the R&D has been done and paid for on both engines thanks to these 2 supercars)

RICKS · May 19, 2004

You totally missed my point, COMPLETELY. You don't have to lecture me about GM's and Mopar's pushrod mills, I'm well aware. I'm one of the STAUNCHEST defenders of the power and efficiency of GM's OHV V-8's you'll find on this Ford-nutty forum!! And I don't need a history lesson, we don't need to start jousting 'till we're debating sleeve-valve Stearns Knights on a Mustang forum. I was speaking from FORD'S perspective, not mine, I don't know how you missed that. And I guess while Ford had gone modular in '96 that I must've gotten whacked in my "ricer" head while I was special-ordering my "stone age" '97 S351 supercharged Speedster from Saleen, that replaced my beloved pushrod '93 Corvette. You've really got me wrong, trust me.

If it is good enoght for a $400,000 supercar I think it will be good enough

Give me a break, that had little to do with the point I was making (not to mention the S7 debacle has practically bankrupted Saleen again, if the rumors I hear are accurate). The fact of the matter is that Ford is 100% committed to OHC V-8's, period, done deal, it's been etched in granite for years now. Years ago, Coletti said, Nasser said, even Bill Ford has said, to loosely paraphrase, "you'll never see another pushrod V-8 from Ford", PERIOD. Sure, Saleen decided to go with a Windsor-derivative pushrod mill. But Saleen is Saleen, not Ford, last I checked. According to FORD, NOT ME, their future is the OHC layout. GM has a different opinion/approach, and DC has yet another. The R-model would logically showcase the latest and greatest evolution of what Ford can accomplish in powertrain development. They haven't laid a finger on a pushrod engine for years. When they transitioned to the modular family, they had the enormous task of weaning the Ford faithful off of their Windsor small blocks, and getting them "on board" with the new and technically intimidating modulars, without losing everybody to "brand X or Y". Now, you suggest that they would toss all that aside and drop a stroked aluminum-block windsor into a Mustang. All that would accomplish is to reignite the outcry in the Mustang world to have ALL Mustangs go back to pushrods. What a bright move that would be . Myself? Personally? SURE, I would LOVE a new R with a 550 h.p. 7.0 all-aluminum 427. My point was, don't hold your breath, it doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of happening.

The 7.0L would also be a lot lighter, more compact, rev just as high (7000rpm redline), have a lower center of gravity and cost less to build (all the R&D has been done and paid for on both engines thanks to these 2 supercars)

Fine.... so explain to me why it was not the logical choice to power the new Ford GT?? It would have displaced the same cubic inches as the originals that finish 1,2,3 in Lemans, and there wouldn't be any of that "well if you supercharged a Ferrari 360...." chatter that always happens when you compare a forced-induction car to one that is n/a. So why didn't Ford go with the aluminum 427 in the new GT?? I'll give you a hint: Read comments above regarding Ford's commitment to OHC and its commitment to showcasing the abilities of the powertrains they are using in their passenger cars.

CatmanJJ · May 19, 2004

Forged blown 5.4 DOHC V8, holycrap, that'd be like a current Cobra on steriods and a worthy engine for a new say Cobra R.

But honestly I think they'd save the S/C setup for the Shelby/SVT version and might put the Cammer in it instead, I mean look at the GT-R concept or use the 600 hp V10 from the Shelby roadster concept.

shatner saves · May 19, 2004

THIS THREAD IS TEARING US APART!

Z28x · May 19, 2004

RICKS said:
You totally missed my point, COMPLETELY. You don't have to lecture me about GM's and Mopar's pushrod mills, I'm well aware. I'm one of the STAUNCHEST defenders of the power and efficiency of GM's OHV V-8's you'll find on this Ford-nutty forum!! And I don't need a history lesson, we don't need to start jousting 'till we're debating sleeve-valve Stearns Knights on a Mustang forum. I was speaking from FORD'S perspective, not mine, I don't know how you missed that. And I guess while Ford had gone modular in '96 that I must've gotten whacked in my "ricer" head while I was special-ordering my "stone age" '97 S351 supercharged Speedster from Saleen, that replaced my beloved pushrod '93 Corvette. You've really got me wrong, trust me. Give me a break, that had little to do with the point I was making (not to mention the S7 debacle has practically bankrupted Saleen again, if the rumors I hear are accurate). The fact of the matter is that Ford is 100% committed to OHC V-8's, period, done deal, it's been etched in granite for years now. Years ago, Coletti said, Nasser said, even Bill Ford has said, to loosely paraphrase, "you'll never see another pushrod V-8 from Ford", PERIOD. Sure, Saleen decided to go with a Windsor-derivative pushrod mill. But Saleen is Saleen, not Ford, last I checked. According to FORD, NOT ME, their future is the OHC layout. GM has a different opinion/approach, and DC has yet another. The R-model would logically showcase the latest and greatest evolution of what Ford can accomplish in powertrain development. They haven't laid a finger on a pushrod engine for years. When they transitioned to the modular family, they had the enormous task of weaning the Ford faithful off of their Windsor small blocks, and getting them "on board" with the new and technically intimidating modulars, without losing everybody to "brand X or Y". Now, you suggest that they would toss all that aside and drop a stroked aluminum-block windsor into a Mustang. All that would accomplish is to reignite the outcry in the Mustang world to have ALL Mustangs go back to pushrods. What a bright move that would be . Myself? Personally? SURE, I would LOVE a new R with a 550 h.p. 7.0 all-aluminum 427. My point was, don't hold your breath, it doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of happening. Fine.... so explain to me why it was not the logical choice to power the new Ford GT?? It would have displaced the same cubic inches as the originals that finish 1,2,3 in Lemans, and there wouldn't be any of that "well if you supercharged a Ferrari 360...." chatter that always happens when you compare a forced-induction car to one that is n/a. So why didn't Ford go with the aluminum 427 in the new GT?? I'll give you a hint: Read comments above regarding Ford's commitment to OHC and its commitment to showcasing the abilities of the powertrains they are using in their passenger cars.

I see what your saying now. I mistook what you said before for your personal feelings, not from the Ford point of view.

I forgot about the whole 5.0/4.6 mess, after woking hard for years to convince Mustang owners and loyalist that their beloved 5.0L and 5.8L pushrod V8s were being replaced by the "it's just as good" 4.6L OHC engines, it would be kind of two faced of them to put a pushrod engine in not only King of all Mustang, but the the greatest "Kind of all Mustangs" ever, the next Cobra R.

I'd guess the DOHC S/C 5.4L was used in the Ford GT because it has more "trickle down" uses for it and its R&D.

RICKS · May 19, 2004

Exactly. And that "trickle down" value carries ALOT of weight when you're trying to sell an expensive project to the top brass, and it also allows you to direct alot of the R & D expense to other platform budgets which probably helped keep the cost of the GT down below Ferrari territory. I got a bit snippy myself, glad we understand each other now

numenor27 · May 19, 2004

7 liter??? Ford would never put a 7.0 in a new mustang. The corvette is only a 6.0 and its a corvette!

351CJ · May 19, 2004

Neither one! Give me the 390 CID, 600 HP, V10 from the Shelby Cobra concept!

If I can't get the V10, my 2nd choice would be the large bore Mod-Motor that Ford is rumored to be working on.

Unfortunately the V10 will never happen. I'd say odds are that the next gen. Cobra-R will get the 5.4L S/C engine from the Ford GT, but only after Ford GT production ends. You know how Ford likes to stretch its R&D $$. So don't look for an R before 2008.

shatner saves · May 19, 2004

numenor27 said:
7 liter??? Ford would never put a 7.0 in a new mustang. The corvette is only a 6.0 and its a corvette!

Since when does Chevrolet's design choices have anything to do with what ford decides to do with the mustang.

I like the idea of a big bore mod motor. A 6.0 liter plus V8 with the 3 valve head would be pretty stout IMO and relatively cheap to build.

Whatever motor the next Cobra gets, Ford has said it will have a HP increase over the current one. Good news for anyone planning on buying one.

Omegalock · May 19, 2004

351CJ said:
Neither one! Give me the 390 CID, 600 HP, V10 from the Shelby Cobra concept!

If I can't get the V10, my 2nd choice would be the large bore Mod-Motor that Ford is rumored to be working on.

Unfortunately the V10 will never happen. I'd say odds are that the next gen. Cobra-R will get the 5.4L S/C engine from the Ford GT, but only after Ford GT production ends. You know how Ford likes to stretch its R&D $$. So don't look for an R before 2008.

Ding ding ding we have a winner. That V10 is begging to be used and if not in a Shelby Cobra the Cobra R is the next best thing.

RICKS · May 20, 2004

Hey, can't I get some credit for suggesting a V10 in the 4th post?? Man, I just can't get any props around here!! J.K.

Z28x · May 20, 2004

RICKS said:
Hey, can't I get some credit for suggesting a V10 in the 4th post?? Man, I just can't get any props around here!! J.K.

In my V10 vs. S/C V8 poll the V10 won 88 votes to 75.

I think a V10 stang would be cool, I guess I should have added that to the poll. A 6.8L 3v SOHC aluminum V10 would be right up there with the other 2 engines.

What engine would you rather see in the next Cobra (R)

What would you rather have in the next Cobra R

5.4L s/c V8 from the Ford GT = 550HP

7.0L n/a V8 from the Saleen S7 = 550HP

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