What next

v8quest · Feb 22, 2007

It is time to tke the 302 from a daily driver to a more potent steet car.
here is what i have now:
It is a 1969 302 Block and cylinder heads, block bored .030 over
9.5:1 flat top hypereutectic pistons
Sealed Power cast iron piston rings
Edelbrock performer cam shaft and lifters
Double roller timing chain set
Hardened pushrods with guide plates
Cylinder heads checked for cracks, new valve guides and screw in rocker studs
New exhaust and intake valves with 3 angle valve job
Harlan Sharpe 1.6 ration roller rockers
Edelbrock valve springs and keepers
Edelbrock performer intake mainifold
Holley street series 650 cfm vacuum sec. With electic choke carburetor
Accel electronic distributor
MSD 6A ignition box
Taylor Spiro max 8mm ignition wires
Factory stock Ford Mustang Boss shorty headers with 2.5 inch flanges
Dyno'ed on the car at 190hp in 3rd gear running a '84 AOD.Car will make power to 5K and that's it...of course with the edelbrock perfermer kit,that is about all she has...lol.I a ready to go higher. Engine still runs good but time for new heads,intake,carb,cam etc.
So,I guess what i am asking is info on what heads,cam,intake etc would go great with what I am presently working with.

1966conv · Feb 22, 2007

What's your goal and how much are you willing to spend?

Can you do any of the work yourself or are you going to have to pay to have it done?

v8quest · Feb 22, 2007

not looking to spend the savings on it and i will do some of the work....probably have help of some friends.

SoCalCruising · Feb 22, 2007

You must determine what you want from the car, then choose heads first, then cam and intake to match. One thing to determine right away is how large a valve your present pistons will allow. Your hyper pistons are fine for most NA street applications, but they may or may not accommodate a large valve. If they have stock size reliefs, then you will have real limitations on heads. AFR 165s are an excellent head and have 1.90" intake and 1.60" exhaust valves. These may be the best bet if the reliefs are small. It these heads (new) are too pricey, you may have to look for used castings or go to a ported stock head with a valve swap (larger). If you keep the cam to an advertised duration of about 275, then you won't see much difference between a roller and a flat tappet cam, and the flat tappet cam will be much cheaper than converting to a roller (heads are cheaper, too - not needing roller cam spring upgrade). It you have large valve reliefs, then Twisted Wedge heads are nice. They have peak flow arounf .500" lift (non-ported), so you don't need a high lift cam to make them work.

There are some new flat tappet cams out now that should be much better than the old standbys. Lunati Voodoo cams come to mind (see http://www.holley.com/61003.asp). A Stealth or RPM Air-gap intake would work well.

66forfun · Feb 22, 2007

what gear are you running? instant bang for the buck right there. manifold and lt's sure would help too.

v8quest · Feb 22, 2007

3.56 and i cannot change the gears out....none or offered for my car.I could do a 4.10 out of a d50 pickup but not wanting to go that high.
i know i need headers but that will be custom made cause they will have to clear my frame rails and steering unit.

Edbert · Feb 22, 2007

Sticking with the factory heads will limit you severely, but with a few hours of port work they can get respectible numbers, of course they weigh a ton and will not let you raise compression very high without detonation on modern fuel.

I'd suggest a set of AFR-165s, try to find someone who has a used set who is upgrading to 185/205s. Should be able to find used Eddy-RPM or TFS heads, but I'd have them checked out well before bolting them up. 1.60e/2.02i is about the biggest you can get on vavles and has a 50-50 chance of requiring flycuts, consider it 100% if you go TFS.

There's gotta be a thousand different cam choices out there, biggest factor in choosing a cam is the heads, but wieght of vehicle, type of intake, RPM-range for operation, type of trans, rear gear ratio and even tire size can have an impact on choice.

BlackGMC · Feb 22, 2007

I was kinda in your situation, so I bought some World Products Heads.
http://store.summitracing.com/egnse...2+4294838998+400240+4294908331+115+4294840126

They are a much cheaper alternative than some others, but they are iron heads. They worked awesome. I would also consider doing a roller cam conversion. That way you can run higher lift and duration, but keep it streetable and rilable. Once you get the heads and cam then pick a intake manifold and carb. I would also get some long tube headers.

v8quest · Feb 22, 2007

Thanks guys,this is helping alot.
cannot use long tube headers,my car isn't a mustang and i really am limited for space.

Thanks guys,this is helping alot.
cannot use long tube headers,my car isn't a mustang and i really am limited for space.
There's gotta be a thousand different cam choices out there, biggest factor in choosing a cam is the heads, but wieght of vehicle, type of intake, RPM-range for operation, type of trans, rear gear ratio and even tire size can have an impact on choice.

car weighs 3450 without me in it.
rpm range somewhere around 6500 should do
rear gears will stay the same...3.56
1984 AOD tranny with a b&m shift kit and 2800 stall
18x8 rears with 245/45
18x6 fronts with 225/50
I am hoping for around 300hp and still keep it a decent driver.

Edbert · Feb 22, 2007

300 at the wheels? You're outta the league of factory heads right there considering the AOD, add in the 6,500RPM and you're gonna need a lot deeper breathing than you'll get from the tiny ports on them. What kind of rear-end do you have? An AOD and a 9" can easily suck a 400fwhp motor down to nearly 300rwhp.

If you mean fwhp or bhp then you can get there with a nice streetable dual-plane intake like the airgap. Just open the exhaust ports up to match the gaskets, and get a dual-profile hydraulic cam like the 268H, should put you about there. If you are still short you can have some larger valves installed. The factory exhaust manifolds are gonna hurt a lot though, I'd give up on 6,500 with them, will shorties fit between your towers? You can probably get 300fwhp without winding it up past 6,000 anyway.

SoCalCruising · Feb 22, 2007

Your stall won't allow too much cam, so don't go overboard or you will have problems. Stay mild, but go for nice breathing heads. The shorties you have, if 1 5/8", will be okay. They're a little ratty >, but you can always have then coated. The small AFRs are a really nice head. Lastly, you don't need more than a 600cfm carb - even a bit smaller would help with throttle response.

That car is surprisingly heavy. Must be built really solid. I bet it pushes a bit on the corners ... aluminum heads will help. Good luck.

v8quest · Feb 23, 2007

Car drives well....with the engine sitting back in the engine bay and the engine cradle it sits in,the car has no over or under steer.I have had mustangs before and this car drives similiar to them but with more steering response.
Everyone always tells me the AOD is what is killing the car.It runs ok,somewhere right at 14 in the 1/4....but it isa crusier and notsomuch a racer...soething I want to change a little.
I am looking at trying to see if I can fit some type of blockhugger headers in it..will be tricky.
and the rear is a LSD with IRS...factory rear for these cars

Edbert · Feb 23, 2007

Don't take my comments as "anti-AOD", in fact I put one in my car. They are well known for being a source of high parasitic-loss, weak components (in factory form) and heavy. But an automatic with a good TC can actually multiply your torque, an automatic that shifts correctly will beat a standard in a drag race (at almost all levels of driver skill), and that extra gear for cruising is indispensible over a C4/C6. You just need to compensate for the additional drag and weight by adding...MO POWAH!

That Mitsu rear-end might be pretty efficient so you probably won't suffer as much loss as the 9", of course you better check into it's capacity to handle the power. Didn't those cars come with I4s?

You can also buy one of those DIY header kits and make your own custom-to-fit, maybe. Lotta work, but if you can weld it might well be worth the effort.

jikelly · Feb 23, 2007

OMG the AOD is one heavy mofo. I mean HEAVY!! I really like my OD Manual Tranny, but what Edbert says still applies.

jikelly · Feb 23, 2007

Oh check out the article on cam selection http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0607phr_camshaft_basics/

It's got some really good info in it that I should have read before deciding on my cam. I think I might have overdone it with the duration.

v8quest · Feb 23, 2007

I have thought about going to a built c4 once i stop using as a daily car.I know the AOD is costing me some power.
The car did come with an I4.....and the rear will hold in the 500HP range,so i am good with that.
Thanks guys,I have a good idea of what i may need now.I a not out to make it a 11-12 second car,but if i could get it inside 13s I would be happy.

ratio411 · Feb 23, 2007

Couple of points:
The converter you have now is very mild.
Even with your current cam, you could use a little more verter.

The 4.10 gears will help you in several respects.
If you didn't have the OD tranny, I wouldn't recommend.
But with the OD tranny, and the sheer parasitic loss of the tranny, I think they would serve you well. Gears would make your current converter much more functional, give you a good seat of the pants boost, and you wouldn't notice them nearly as much as C4 guys because of the OD.

You need much better headers than the stock 5.0 tubes. They are weak for performance. The exhaust is really important on an SBF, any car for that matter.
If the stock 5.0 headers fit your car, then why would aftermarket 5.0 headers not fit? I would seriously look into it.

Heads...
You could take your heads and have them juiced up with every mod they will take, but it will cost you nearly as much as an aluminium set that you can bolt right on. AFRs are spendy, but one of the best you can get.

Anyway, my opinion in summary:

Get some aftermarket headers first!
Then gears.
Now you will need a better intake, the Performer is not what you want.
That is the exact reason your car falls on it's face at 5k.
Get a Wieand Stealth since you have auto and your car is a bit heavy.
The Stealth is best you can get for your combo. If you had a manual tranny, or your car was about 500 lbs lighter, I would insist on a single plane myself.

After that, drive, enjoy, and save up for some AFR 165 or 185... 185s have room to grow IMO.

Dave

Edit: IMO, just the Stealth and good headers could break into the 13s.
Add the AFRs and 4.10s (assuming you can get traction) you could nip into the 12s. That would put you door to door with the average LS1 car.

v8quest · Feb 23, 2007

I am wanting to try some different headers,the Boss style shorties are old and starting to show their age.I guess I can take a pic of how close to the frame rails i am and get some opinions on what some of you think might fit.Of course the buy it and make it yourself might be the trick i need.
The gears i thought I could get for my car may not be 4.10 but 3.90
I am thinking of changing carb's anyway,mine is showing its age and starting to leak and my gas mileage starting to suck...down from 25mpg to about 18-10.
Thanks Ratio,that was a great post.

ratio411 · Feb 23, 2007

v8quest said:
I am wanting to try some different headers,the Boss style shorties are old and starting to show their age.I guess I can take a pic of how close to the frame rails i am and get some opinions on what some of you think might fit.

You are using tube shorties, correct?
If so, they must be the HO 5.0 tubes, right?
I am a little lost because there never was a "stock" Boss 302 header.
The Boss engines used cast iron manifolds.

If you do have the HO headers, and they fit, then reason suggests that aftermarket HO shorties for the same car would fit too.
That would be much better than trying to build a set.

Pics might help...

Dave

ratio411 · Feb 23, 2007

Okay, checked your pics.
Those look like 5.0 Stang HO tubes to me.
Someone here will correct me if I am wrong...

I would seriously study them and compare them to 'good' aftermarket 87-93 Stang headers.

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