What should my engine temp and oil pressure be?

19stang66 · Jul 3, 2006

Its a 50/50 mix bought that way.

Don't know much about tuning carbs.
All brand new hoses, and for the eleventymillionth time, the bottom hose has a spring in it.
Put the old 13lbs cap back on it.
Fixed all cooling system leaks.
Radiator has been flushed several times and no more rust.
Don't know if I have air in the system, if I do how do i know?
Brand new waterpump.

MustangMatt1966 · Jul 3, 2006

19stang66 said:
Its a 50/50 mix bought that way.

Don't know much about tuning carbs.
All brand new hoses, and for the eleventymillionth time, the bottom hose has a spring in it.
Put the old 13lbs cap back on it.
Fixed all cooling system leaks.
Radiator has been flushed several times and no more rust.
Don't know if I have air in the system, if I do how do i know?
Brand new waterpump.

yo, chill out man..no need to get all worked up, people are just trying to help. Just because the waterpump is brand new doesnt mean is works. I have had ones out of the box that didnt work. Doesnt hurt to check the simple little things in which in turn be the source of the problem.

mikemustang289 · Jul 3, 2006

Stock radiators suck!!! I don't care how many rows it has, it is too small for a modified motor.

Get a universal aluminum radiator and make some brackets. I bought mine from summit for about $150, 27x19 fits right between the frame rails on my 68. I ditched the stock spacer plates at well.

I can drive my car any where here in AZ in 110+ heat, I have not shroud and no electric fan.

I had an electric fan on my stock radiator and it made no difference over the flex fan and stock shroud.

Stock radiators just don't cool, my radiator was new and it still didn't cool. An overdrive trans would help but 3000 is just too much rpm in hot heat, at least that was my experience.

grego37 · Jul 3, 2006

Try this to remove any trapped air that might be in the system:

with the car cold.
remove radiator cap,
start car,
let the car get up to running temp,
.........when the thermostat opens ,you'll know by looking into the radiator cap hole, you'll notice the water/coolant flowing more rapidly. Any air that was in the system will escape with your cap off. After about 1 min. slowely top off your radiator with more coolant and install the cap. DOne

D.Hearne · Jul 4, 2006

One other possibility no one suggested: Although I don't think 220 is too hot, you so could have 1 or two backwards head gaskets. On a small block, if they are backwards, the coolant "short cuts" back to the head from the block and the coolant at the rear of the block and heads overheats. This isn't as bad as it comes out on a Cleveland though, install em backwards and it completly blocks the coolant path from the heads back to the block and T-Stat housing.

65ShelbyClone · Jul 4, 2006

Before anyone goes out trying to solve this problem with money, I don't think a brass radiator is inadequate for a warmed over 289. The only exception is if it's partially clogged. Another member(mustangman74 I think) has a similar cooling problem with a similar engine......and an aluminum radiator.

19stang66 said:
1. Don't know much about tuning carbs.

2. Don't know if I have air in the system, if I do how do i know?

That could be an issue. I remember my '65 being very sensitive to jet changes in regard to running temp.

2. Use the method grego37 described.

Does the engine overheat if you let it sit and idle?

mikemustang289 · Jul 4, 2006

it's not that the radiator is inadequate, the car may cool well around town but the reason it gets too hot on the highway is because at 3000 rpm the motor is creating much more heat and the radiator isn't able to keep up.

This is problem I had, at one point I couldn't even drive my car in the summer on the highway. Adding overdrive helped but my temps were still high above 200-210

I added an aluminum radiator and temps dropped and stay at 180,

You can try a higher temp thermostat, but I still don't think it will help. At 220, the thermostat won't close and the the coolant won't cool because it's not staying in the radiator long enough.

19stang66 · Jul 4, 2006

Mustangmatt, I was just replying to his post. I'm not getting pissed off, I just get a little annoyed when people ask the same question over and over when all they had to do was read the post before.

Ok so anyways, i'll try the letting the air escape thing. How do I check if the water pump is working like it should? I'd get a new alum radiator but since I dont have a lot of mulah as of now, i'll try the cheap stuff first. If it comes to getting a new rad, then i'll save up and get one when I can. Thanks for all the help!

mikemustang289 · Jul 5, 2006

I've never seen a water pump that worked only at 50%, it's either pumping or it isn't. The only reason it wouldn't be pumping is if the impeller broke off, which is unlikely, or it is highly corroded. I run a stock pump, and when I bought it, it was rebuilt and not new, never had problems. Only time I have ever replaced a water pump is when they start leaking.

Your pump is pumping, but since your thermostat is constantly open, the coolant never has time to cool off when it's in the radiator. The first thing I would do is put a higher temp thermostat in.

If that doesn't work, consider getting the radiator recored. Flushing the radiator doesn't mean there are no restrictions. Over time, the tubes will get clogged and restrict flow.

I recored my original radiator and 5 or 6 of the tubes were clogged with dedris, mostly from corrosion.

Shortly after the radiator blew top off on the highway no less, and that's when I bought a new stock replacement. That lasted few years and I got sick of dealing with the high temps in summer. Bought the aluminum rad and will never run anything else.

Hack · Jul 5, 2006

mikemustang289 said:
Your pump is pumping, but since your thermostat is constantly open, the coolant never has time to cool off when it's in the radiator.

This is not and can never be true.

D.Hearne · Jul 5, 2006

Installing a higher temp T-Stat will NOT make it run cooler. If it's running hot, you need a lower temp T-stat. Try a 160. And 200-220 isn't too hot. It's perfect. Anywhere between 180 and 220 is right where it needs to be. He might also need a higher volume water pump. And before running off to spend a bunch of money on an aftermarket pump, save it and get a rebuilt one at your local parts house. Just about all Ford stock pumps came in two versions, std volume and high volume. The HV unit is listed as "extra cooling with A/C or police/taxi service. Same pump housing, just a larger impeller.

68keyblr · Jul 5, 2006

ga289stocker said:
I second the electric fan, i have a 65 289 Stang and had a 17" flex-a-lite, I switched to this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/16-I...emQQcategoryZ33600QQihZ017QQitemZ270000946558,
It is awesome, saves hp, i put in a toggle switch or you can do a thermostic one. Actually while driving the car over 45mph i never even have to turn the fan on. In traffic i will kick it on when the temp rises and it will cool it right down. Best part is unit is very low profile and has lots of clearance. Here is a link to the finished unit in my car,
I highly recommend it, I'm very satisfied, you don't have to spend hundred's of dollars for a good electric unit...
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/835961

That fan looks good, and I'm probably gonna try one out. However, it does draw 25 amps so if you plan on running this fan you'll need a beefy alternator.
I think the stock alternator is rated at 35 amps. I'd go to at least a 55 amp alternator to run this fan, 90 if you have a decent stereo.

19stang66 · Jul 5, 2006

Well I just bought the waterpump this summer from NAPA. It is a brand new one, not reman. I have a 180* t-stat in now. I think i'll try a 160. How much is it to recore a radiator? Is it worth it to recore it or just get a new one? Ya I would have to upgrade to a 90amp alt because I have a decent stereo setup, i'm surprised my stock alt has held up to it.

hhead · Jul 5, 2006

is the water flowing when you leave the cap off?

Hack · Jul 5, 2006

If the engine is a fresh rebuild, it will run hot for a while. I'm not as big into building new motors as many of the other people on here, but that's what happened on my '70. Years ago I had the 250 straight 6 rebuilt. It ran hotter than before, so I bought a new radiator. Then by the time I received the new radiator, the car had stopped running hot.

It is also possible that the brand new thermostat isn't opening like it should. Your symptoms to me seem as though there isn't enough flow. I think you should avoid a 160 degree thermostat if you want the engine to last, though. You might consider checking/replacing the thermostat before you replace any more expensive parts.

I agree with D.Hearne that 200-220 is a good operating temperature - as long as you don't have any other problems such as vapor lock.

D.Hearne · Jul 5, 2006

Hack said:
If the engine is a fresh rebuild, it will run hot for a while. I'm not as big into building new motors as many of the other people on here, but that's what happened on my '70. Years ago I had the 250 straight 6 rebuilt. It ran hotter than before, so I bought a new radiator. Then by the time I received the new radiator, the car had stopped running hot.

It is also possible that the brand new thermostat isn't opening like it should. Your symptoms to me seem as though there isn't enough flow. I think you should avoid a 160 degree thermostat if you want the engine to last, though. You might consider checking/replacing the thermostat before you replace any more expensive parts.

I agree with D.Hearne that 200-220 is a good operating temperature - as long as you don't have any other problems such as vapor lock.

I agree with you too about the fresh motor. I hadn't thought of that angle. The 160 degree T-stat shouldn't hurt long as it keeps the temps above 180. I've got a 160 in my Ranger to keep it cool as I can, but it never runs less than 180 with it. It's cooling system ain't what I'd like it to be, but that's the trade-off I made in swapping in a V8. I tried a 180 in it before and it just ran another 10-15 degrees hotter.

19stang66 · Jul 5, 2006

When I bought the car it the PO said it was rebuilt and bored .030 over. I havent checked to make sure he was telling the truth. I forget how many miles are on the rebuild. How many miles did it take yours to break in and not be so hot?

I'm going to do the water flow check, i'll report back soon!

19stang66 · Jul 5, 2006

Well I just got back from trying to let the air out of the radiator. Didnt go so well. As it reached about 160, the coolant was starting to bubble over the neck. So I quick put the cap back on and shut the car off. It didnt even reach 180. Whats wrong? Too much coolant? I have an overflow so I can fill it all the way to the top. I dont know what to do now.

mikemustang289 · Jul 6, 2006

Hack said:
This is not and can never be true.

You are right, it is not true to a degree. The coolant does cool, but it's not in the radiator long enough to cool the way it should. the water is just continuouly cycling through the radiator. It is cooling, yes, otherwise the temp wouldn't stay at 220 it would rise even higher.

In order for the system to work, the radiator needs to cool at a faster rate than the heat is absorbed from the block.

Obviously this is the case with all radiators but some cool better and faster than others.

If your thermostat is continuously open, the temp will reach an equilibrium and remain at 220 because the radiator is unable to cool it any lower given the amount of heat that is absorbed by the running engine.

Only so much heat will be tranferred from the radiator to the passing air in the time it takes for the coolant to make its way down the radiator. It will cool X amount of degrees and as it makes its way back through the block and heads, that same amount of temp will be gained.

Putting in a lower degree thermostat will not do anything, once you're at operating temp, the thermostat will remain open, just like the 180 degree thermostat is now, and they coolant will just cycle around with no change or drop in coolant temp.

The reason for the thermostat, other than for warm up. is to close off the water from inside the block and preven it from entering the radiator. This allows time for the coolant in the radiator to cool. Once the water temp in the engine reaches 180 degrees the thermostat opens and the hot coolant goes into the radiator. the coolant that was in the radiator enters the block and the thermostat closes. That hot coolant that was in the block now has time to cool in the radiator while the coolant that was in the radiator begins to absorb the heat from the block.

In order for the system to work, your radiator much transfer heat at a faster rate than the coolant in the block absorbs heat, otherwise your thermostat will never close. A higher temp thermostat will delay the time and possibly allow the coolant to cool to a lower temp in the radiator, but at the same time the coolant is staying in the block for a longer period of time. If the radiator is capable of cooling more efficiently than the absorbtion that takes place inside the block, then your temp should drop; if not then your radiator is inadequate and needs replacing.

If that doesn't make sense then please explain where I'm wrong?

mikemustang289 · Jul 6, 2006

D.Hearne said:
I agree with you too about the fresh motor. I hadn't thought of that angle. The 160 degree T-stat shouldn't hurt long as it keeps the temps above 180. I've got a 160 in my Ranger to keep it cool as I can, but it never runs less than 180 with it. It's cooling system ain't what I'd like it to be, but that's the trade-off I made in swapping in a V8. I tried a 180 in it before and it just ran another 10-15 degrees hotter.

Your logic is exacltly correct and represents the way a coolant system should work. The reason your temps were higher with the 180 degree thermostat, is because the higher thermostat allows the coolant to stay in the block for a longer period of time, and reach a higher degree. Since your temp sensor is near the thermostat, you will read higher a higher temp on the guage.

Because your radiator is efficient, a lower temp thermostat will lower the temps you read on your guage because your radiator is able to cool at a faster rate then the heat that is absorbed in your block. Your system is working as it should but when a radiator is inadequate, the coolant won't cycly as it should and the thermostat will no longer regulate the temp.

What should my engine temp and oil pressure be?

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